PvP

[Sir Boss]

Just as personal opinion, I hate PvP. I loved and played EnB because there was no PvP. There are plenty of other games out there for people to get their PvP fix on.

[Mimir[IS]]

Just as personal opinion, I hate PvP. I loved and played EnB because there was no PvP. There are plenty of other games out there for people to get their PvP fix on.

I think it is on it's way here like it or not.

The powers that be have stated in prior posts that the discussion was already held on IF we were going to have PvP in the EnB emulator, and I guess the vote? was for it. I didn't get to vote but then who the heck am I?

And if there HAS to be PvP I would like it to be as painless as possible for those that don't want it. If it is open PvP and new and old players can't leave a base for fear of getting jumped, well that is a massive fail imo. If one can't do one's mission or mine without fear of the introduction of other player's hunting them down, well that is yet another fail.

If the Devs insist on putting it in, then I suggest that when that happens they split the development. PvPers go one way non PvPers go the other. The source for the server be updated (db included) at the time of the split and everyone walks away happy.

[Daywolf]

It's like a bad reality show in here... as if there were any good ones.

[Tienbau]

I've already outlined the plans in this area elsewhere but I'll say it again ...

I think most people aversion to PVP is the uncontrolled variety, like in a FPS game. We all know that wouldn't work in E&B.

There are a few plans kicking around for some controlled PVP areas which would be practically impossible for someone not wanting to PVP to accidentally come across. In order for an innocent party to be 'ganked' they'd need to go right out of their way at the right/wrong time, ignore subtle warnings and also ignore the fact there's explosions going off left right and centre.

Some people enjoy the challenge of trying to strategically outwit other players (I don't think there will ever be a straight shoot-the-other-player pvp setting, what's the point for this game? we have auto-aiming), and I 100% understand that a lot of us log in just to do a relaxing bit of mining and so on.

Read into this what you will. If you read the post and have no desire to do any pvp hopefully this will put you at ease, and conversely if you would enjoy trying to outwit other players in team games then there is hope there too. But like Kenu said, we've got a whole ton of other things to do first. There's no harm in thinking about it though.

[Sir Boss]

I don't mind if all those fanatics are off on their own killing each other, They can have at it as long as it's just open space to kill/grief each other in. My problem is when I am forced into that area to get something or there's some kind of gain that i can only get there ... As long as i can avoid it completely without any loss then they can have at it, none of my business.

[posfordfan1220]

Sometimes I just wish I there were someone out there I could take my frustrations out on in the game. Other than that, I can't comment much. Maybe limit PvP to certain sectors? I.e. you can enter them only at your own risk.

It would also be nice if some systems were actively patrolled (i.e. moving from one NAV point to the next, or randomly through a sector) such that members aligned with the wrong faction have to worry about being chased and attacked.

There's even the possibility that players could be offered limited PvP via quest-related patrol missions, but my gut tells me this could be too easily abused.

[Daywolf]

PvP = fanatics taking aggression out on one another?

Ok now who is going to climb the rope for a banana with a ticket to Hawaii *cough* maybe inside it? Don't mind the flame throwers and buckets of acid poring down, it'll be worth it ya know. Of course the opposing team will be standing side with poison dart blowers just to make it interesting. But Hawaii!!! whoohoo!

[Inzanity]

I don't mind if all those fanatics are off on their own killing each other, They can have at it as long as it's just open space to kill/grief each other in. My problem is when I am forced into that area to get something or there's some kind of gain that i can only get there ... As long as i can avoid it completely without any loss then they can have at it, none of my business.

Definately! If the PvPers are squirreled away (1) hopefully on a completely different server or (2) in an area where a PvEer has no need / reason to enter, that'd be OK. Have the gates to PvP areas color coded differently or name the sectors like "Hydraxia-PvP" or something. I don't want subtle clues... I want big warning signs.

A PvP flagging system would be highly useful. If I don't flag myself, I can neither be harmed by, nor can I harm another. This way, if I stumbled into a PvP area, I'd be safe as long as I diddn't flag for PvP. This could be (on the user side) as simple as /pvp [on, off]. That way the PvPers can get their jollies and I can enjoy the game without worrying about some twit blowing me apart. We have enough to worry about with monsters, thank you very much.

[Daywolf]

Nope, that banana was missing the grand prize ticket, care to try again?

Gets redundant, people saying over and over that they are afraid of being attacked when it has been said time and time again that that is not the intention for a PvP system. You pick the most boring PvP type system and keep whaling on it as if the devs said that's what is in the works. This isn't 1999 UO, so get off it already

*Refills the acid bucket for the next participant*

[ghent96]

Daywolf, before you started the silliness of acid and bananas you actually had a reasonable voice in this thread, and it sounds like you have gaming, mod'ing, and dev experience to back that voice up. Speak up.

I'd have to multiquote the heck out of this thread to get all the truth out, but that'd be impossible to read. Here goes... long, maybe hard to accept, tempting to delete/ban/flame, but please understand what I type below. I've used no caps, I'm not yelling, not angry, just explaining:

There is already PvP in EnB, and it is among the dev team itself. Politics and infighting. We might as well carry it over into the game, too, right? Bear with me below on important PvP history...

PvP has been an important topic for a long time, about 1.5 years maybe more, and wasvworked on, yes, but it wasn't Kenu or Tienbau. These 2 have done many other good things, but they have nothing to do (afaik) with the bad stuff below. I won't mention names because politics has been destructive enough already, and must stop.

...I worked on PvP. I personally do not like PvP much, but I belive it should be in-game in order to accommodate the wishes of the most players possible, on both sides. A fellow content dev who had a grudge out against me, however, saw differently. He abused my trust to get himself into a lead position and restructure the team about 1.5 - 2 years ago. He then appointed leads for each race, and even though everyone knew I was "the" Jenquai guru, he didn't give me the race. He tried to minimize my influence on the team so he could more easily force his ideas on everyone else (ideas which largely did not fit the backstory we have). He held secret Teamspeak meetings, never took or posted minutes (meeting notes), and excluded a few others also... I was marginalized and later put in charge of PvP. As several have already commented now and back then, PvP was "last" in terms of importance, dev timelines, effort, and I was alone withot any help as the sole team member.

BUT, I am a do'er, a forward thinker, an optimist. I made the best of my bad spot. I made the most comprehensive design document for PvP that I could, taking into account many different aspects of the game, and balance issues. I had a lot of good community feedback back then (1 - 1.5 yrs ago). I had the vision and dedication to contribute everything I could, to make this the best game possible for the community, regardless of how some other dev was working against me and distorting the game. This dev even went so far as to attack me, repeatedly, for my progress and work, even undoing some things I had added. He erased and deleted the products of my valueable free-time from RL as a busy medical professional and husband.

Someone asked earlier why the CDEV team wasn't taking any more members if they have so much to do and can't do it all? Take careful note I say "content" team. Because of politics, some of them don't want new ideas, new people. Because of politics, they don't want fresh workers to outdo them and make them look bad. Because the members they do have are playing around in EnB rather than doing real work on it most of the time. Yes, they have their moments of productivity, but largely they play. I know. I was there up until 1 year ago. I watched them. I voiced my displeasure. I pissed some of them off. They plotted against me and kicked me off.

The PvP design document they are basing everything off of now and up until now is solely my work, and without any acknowledgement to me for any of it. I'd love to be back on the dev team someday, but some of them have such a mysterious animosity towards me, and now I have reason to distrust some of them... that sadly it will probably not happen. As I said above, it seems the dev team is closed to any real workers, but open to politicians. :/

For community members who are very concerned about PvP or don't like it - That's fine. Your opinions are valid, but can co-exist with the opinions of those who want PvP. EnB is designed to allow for it minimal code/server changes. I have no problem with saying that PvP is a later priority, but as I mentioned above, there's many times when CDEVs really aren't doing anything that is a priority. This excuse, to me, falls short in practice. In theory, I agree. The original EnB must be returned first.

Briefly, there are different options for PvP in EnB: arenas, zone/faction, flagged. Arenas would be just like before. Zoned/faction pvp would allow for huge faction battles only against certain other factions and only in certain sectors or areas of a sector. It would also create several new, non-essential, non-throughfare sectors that are full-time compulsory pvp. Flagged pvp would allow combat anywhere but only with other flagged players and NEVER include gating or docking areas to prevent lag abuse.

Bottom line is: Don't Worry about PvP. It should be added. It will be good. Hopefully eventually it does get added, sooner than later, becase even PvE fans will find ways to love and enjoy some type of PvP on occassion It can be voluntary. You can avoid it while playing 100% of all the original EnB galaxy, but... chances are, if they do it right, there's going to be very appealing lure on you to at least try PvP once

You can't just quarantine off all the crazy PvP'ers and act like it doesn't exist, especially with faction battles. You'll probably want to go watch the huge slugfest! All the action will draw you in... You might want to try it out, too.

The newest newbie at Lvl 1 all the way up to a maxed skillpoint Lvl 150 can find ways of enjoying balanced PVP if it is done well. JE vs PW may not be as unfair a battle as you might think, if PvP is done well. Plus, PvP isn't always about scoring a kill on another player... it can be about mining the most, exploring first, more profits, controlling the flow of goods, defending outposts or markers... if... it is done well.

[Daywolf]

Controlling the flow of goods, yeah like bananas! Actually I wasn’t really trying that hard, thought things were really on a roll when I hit the reality show point heh. Well I wrote up an outline last year on a faction system for EnB, thread is gone now of course. Maybe we’ll have a constructive thread in the coming months for ideas on such a system.

Yeah I don’t know the politicking that goes on behind closed doors here, but it happens a lot with different development teams. Actually it happens much too often among indie dev teams, it can be a nightmare. But I know that they haven’t been recruiting here for the longest time, though I’ve never applied since I already spend three to eight hours a day on a project which is three years old now and a couple years to go before beta is really ready (I don't go into specifics here). But I know a lot of development teams, and many of them really suffer with internal problems, even seeing projects fall apart during beta and go vapor over the strife.

I guess that is where the crate of bananas come in handy, less serious you know, sometimes people get too bent out of shape over little things.

[Marco[IS]]

...I worked on PvP.

You're the best at "PvP" to date. No one else has quite made it to your level yet.

Someone asked earlier why the CDEV team wasn't taking any more members if they have so much to do and can't do it all? Take careful note I say "content" team. Because of politics, some of them don't want new ideas, new people. Because of politics, they don't want fresh workers to outdo them and make them look bad.

That is not true. We do add more people. Thanks to some incidents that you are "all to familiar" with when you were a Dev, the team has to be more structured now then back then.

- Marco

PS: I won't openly flame a Developer, even a former one, in a public forum thread. All I can say is that you "reap what you sow"