Jump to content

Suggestion - Component Changes.


Talari

Recommended Posts

Hello, I was thinking of how the races and stuff are in game. While i believe all races should beable to cap at level 9 weapons, people tend to disagree. Iv noticed something taking place, that i dident agree with back in live, and i wanted to suggest some changes to it. I'd even be willing to work out the math. Here are a few idea's of what i think we should do to make the game more dynamic.


Brief: I was thinking we could do something with the Technologies of each of the three races, that would make them more "unique" rather then leaving them at current "Some times this one, from this race is the better mod". The objectivity of this post is to help consider idea's to change the game from being more "BiS" (Best in slot) to being "Sbc" (Selective Buff Choice) [Ie wanting more resist, or more cap]

[color="#00BFFF"]Shield Changes;[/color]

Primarily I was thinking we could do something with the Shields, that would diversify the components. Something like this. (I will give some idea's via points)

[b]Terran Shields[/b]
Discription: "Multiphasic Shielding": Medium Capacitor Values. High Resistances Values

Level 1 Stats
Cap: 65
Recharge: 2.10
Reflect EMP (Equip) +10.00 EMP Deflect when equipped.

Level 9
Cap 90684
Recharge Rate 537.00
Reflect EMP (Equip) +30.00 EMP Deflect when equipped.
Reflect Energy (Equip) +30.00 Energy Deflect when equipped.
Reflect Energy (Equip) +30.00 Plsma Deflect when equipped.

[b]Projan Shields[/b]
Discription: "enforced Shielding": High Capacitor Values, Lower Regen Rates, \
End Game Buffs: Various Damage, Combat buffs

Level 1 Stats
Cap 90
Recharge Rate 1.10

Level 9
Cap 114411
Recharge Rate 686.80

[b]Jenquai Shields[/b]
Discription: "Regenerative Shielding"; High Regeneration, Lower Cap, Light Resists
End Game Buffs: Various Cloaking Buffs

Level 1 Stats
Cap: 45
Recharge: 2.80
On Equip: +2.10% Shield Recharge when equipped.

Level 9 Stats
Cap 80093
Recharge Rate 850.40
On Equip: +44.10% Shield Recharge when equipped.



[color="#8B0000"][b]Weapon Changes[/b][/color]

Brief: As i have mentioned, there are various issues with components having "BiS" (Best in slot) Feels to it. This is a major issue because it causes the other components to be "worthless" (Give or take). I Have interesting idea's For this Part of the post, that may or may not be able to be done or wanted to be done in EnB. I am going to be alittle Vague in this because it requires some math to work out exactly, but i'll give a basic idea as i post each type of weapon (Manufacturer)

This part will be long, so i am going to break it down so you understand the fields, then understand what i am suggestion to be changed.

Core: This is the damage type the race uses primarily (Ie their level 9 weapon of choice)

Secondary: This is the damage they can go to level 8 on.

Jenquai Core is beams, and secondaries are projectiles and missiles. Etc with each race.

[color="#8B0000"][b]Projan[/b][/color]
Primary Weapon Type: Projectiles
Discription: Constant Damage. These weapons should be fast reload, light to medium damage.
Core Damage Type; Dps (constant)
Secondary Damage Types: Alpha Strike.
Damage Types: Impact, Emp

[color="#00BFFF"][b]Terran[/b][/color]
Primary Weapon Type: Missiles
Discription: Alpha Strike Damage. These weapons should be Large Burst hits at lower reload rates
Core Damage Type; Alpha Strike Damage.
Secondary Damage Types: Constant Or Alpha Strike.
Damage Types: Impact, Chem,

[color="#008000"][b]Jenquai[/b][/color]
Primary Weapon Type: Beams
Discription: Core; Damage over Time Effects. These weapons should have "damage over time effects" Also known as "bleeds".
Core Damage Type; Damage over Time Effects.
Secondary Damage Types: Constant Or Alpha Strike.
Damage Types: Plasma, Energy, Emp

(Coming Soon)
Ta-da-Oh
Discription:
Damage Types:

Infinity Corp
Discription:
Damage Types:

[b]Suggestion for changes[/b]

Discription: since the issue here primarily is two things; First, the fact that there is many weapons That are "useless" or near to it; Second the fact that there is a lack of "uniqueness" to each races weapons. so here is some idea's how to fix this.

The first idea is to balance all the weapons out. This is a major objective, as editing 300-500 weapons and balancing them is insanely time consuming.

The second idea is to change the way damage is done in the game (all together).
For example, make all plasma weapons do a Bleed Effect. Make all Emp weapons do damage to shields. This also is a major issue because of constant balances that will need to be made.

The third idea is to add a stat to weapons giving it some sort of beef. again, time consuming.

[u][b]What did we learn? All of them will take time.[/b][/u]
Any of the dev's could of told you this. But the result would be a game where each race starts to "drift" apart in its "feeling" of cross breeding things.

A Possible Solution (Uniqueness Problem)
Edit the races.
By creating a new skill (Default, max level 1) you can add to each race a additional effect. Lets try something as follows

Terran
New Skill: Mark (passive)
Secondary Effect: Causes missile damage to have a "Explosion Radius". While it only effects the ship it hits (initially), it causes missiles to deal an addition damage To the target and Surrounding targets with in 2km

Projan
New skill: Bullseye (passive)
Secondary Effect: When Using Projectile Weapons Causes the target to take an addition 10% Damage when scoring a Critical Strike.

Jenquai
New skill: Wounds (Passive)
Secondary Effect: Causes all Beams to Deal a bleed effect of 10% Of the damage inflicted over 3 seconds.

A Possible Solution (Balancing Issues)
Easiest way to do this is to make store bought items weaker, and other such weapons slightly stronger. causing a reduction in editing of modules from 500 to 200.

From there you don't need to edit all of the weapons, just Enuff to stop the BiS Effect.


Reserved For Additional Change Idea's (Devices)

Reserved For Additional Change Idea's (Engines)

Jenquai Engines
Effect: reduces signature radius greaty giving the Jenquai "passive" Cloaking.

Projan Engines
Effect: Increases regeneration when stationary

Terran Engines
Effect: Immune to Gravity well effects


Reserved For Additional Change Idea's (Reactors) Edited by Talar
Link to comment
Share on other sites

And you miss the point...PROGEN are shield tech specialist's HIGH cap, HIGH recharge. They suffer in reactors and engine. (your anti-PROGEN bis was so evident in your repeated misspelling of their name and pro jenquia tech slant)

TERRAN are engine tech specialist's HIGH thrust rates, HIGH warp rates, HIGH divercity in side buffs. They suffer from moderate reactors and modest shields.

JENQUIA are reactor specialist's HIGH cap rates, HIGH recharge rates. They suffer from shield weakness and moderate engines.

As to your dmg types, once again your anti"projan" bias is telling, you don't know the progen types, their debuffers are CHEMICAL and the gravlink gives them IMPACT/EXPLOSIVE debuffage (a PP don't get grav link btw and thus are stuck with straight up chem, thus all you whiners about PP are OP once again lack knowledge)

The PROGENS whole skill set is designed to get up close, dish out a constant and steady DPS and still withstand mobs counter punch, THUS the shield cap/recharge strength and PW combat trance resistances/ PP shield charge /PS active resistance buffers, repulsor.

The JENQUIA whole skill set is damage avoidance through stealth, thus low profile engines, lower racial signature, cloak and teleportation skills. They are designed for BURST dmg. Thus the combat cloak 2x dmg buff, the long reload times but high dmg beams, this allows a hit for huge dmg, then agro droppage through cloak ,rinse repeat. Their debuffers are primarily plasma explosive, while early on jenquia had a beef that there were no "jenquia design plasma beams" (I agree) later game there is access to jenquia frendly beams.

The TERRAN whole skill set is damage avoidance through distance, thus the high thrust engines and long range wepaons. They are designed for diverse dmg, they have both burst and steady dps through the manuverabilty of engines and differing missle launcher ROF. Their debuffers are primarily impact and energy.

Did you note something to those debuffers? They are designed for interdependance! A terran that wants to kill more efficently needs a jenquia to debuff the mob for explosive or plasma, the jenquia that uses energy beams needs a terran to debuff energy, the progen needs impact debuffage from terran etc. there are of course exceptions..mostly through pirate loot..thats the point! You needed to loot the pirate stuff to make yourself do better in combat or more versatile. High end the warriors start to get loot only, non-manufacturable debuffers that are out of their traditional dmg types..I.E bully eye etc.

I understand your idea that you are trying about racial diversisty..but you have missed the point, they all are desended from terran stock and have deverged for a reason, they "chose their" path so to speak, progen through application of science and racial modification (cloning to task), Jenquia through the spiritual and intellectial arts (manipulation of enviroment), terran through good old mass production and industrialization, (negotiation). End game they do tend to come together towards a common goal, BUT through their own racial lense...progen fight..overcome through breeding a better race! Jenquia..understand and manipulate from within when possible and overcome through enemy perceptions. Terran through mass production and out manufacture innovate them.

Please stop trying to retask a class/race for what they aren't, they would essencially be living a lie. I could go with spot on tech infusions like a more desired shield here or there for jenquia, reactor for progen, weapons for terran etc etc. In reality thats the poins of raids etc. access to slighlty superior gear or versatility through non-steriotypical gear.
  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[b]Thanks for your feed back on the idea, Feedback is important as if gives perspective on idea's from all angles. [/b]



I was actually hoping to balance some of the issues that were taking place of forcing the races to be under one damage time, which is causing them to have problems fighting specific types of monsters, factions etc. It was the hope that through a slight change, we could balance all of the races to a "generalize" capacity in order to make the game more enjoyable, Which at the same time improving more upon that by racial diversity.

I am not proposing a nerf to progan, Actually quiet the opposite (i play the race! lol) i was suggesting to move them to a heavy shield cap then they are now, so that they actually had more room to spam their abilities.

one of the next parts i am working on in math for the idea's of improvement to the game , is to give them Shield> energy conversion devices (as a primary device that you can buy in the stores from level 1 to 9 ). Projan need love for devices badly. [b]This is why the raise on cap would be more emphasized.[/b] (something like a 20% Hp beef).

The end result would be a stronger, heavy shielded progan ship (suited more for longer duration fights, Meaning pulling more and soloing more) then short constant fights(where you have to wait for recharge times between)[u] This would enable the progan to be more suited for "sitting there" and taking the damage[/u].. while the regen change is only about 10% in effect they would be getting about 15-20% more cap, this would help with getting them more energy, which would stablize them, But at the same time have a counter point (a balance so to speak) as if you diden't do rotations right (Like ability, and the said device rotation) you'd deplete all your shields (sorta like now but alittle faster).



[b]As for the Jenquai....[/b]


They are based around concepts similar to a rogue (in other mmos). The concept is hit fast hard, then stealth again and repeat. Thus high shield regeneration (at lower caps) Would be the perfect way to counter them. The reason is because it would push the jenquai more in the direction of hit and run burst tactics, then it would constant battle; This is also why there would be a bleed effect.

so the jenquai would look something like, Decloak, shoot 1-2 times on 1-3 mobs, Recloak, wait 2-3 seconds for DoT's to effect them, Then decloak and repeat. Pushing th jenquai as a racial diversity into that real of being cloak reliant.

[b]As for the terran....[/b]


Terran have already the ability to have faster speeds and maneuverability. Thus they are low on Mitigation.
so the balance (across the board) effect is to give them some of that. Since giving them super high regen, and or cap would make them op, resistance is the perfect match for them.

The terrans flaw in being "across the board" is that they can do little to nothing during the time of reload on launchers (saver flying away). if a group of mobs with their super-buddy circle of death AI decide to get after you, you are forced to jump away, or die. A little resistance would give them just a tad longer on staying in that fight; and since their damage is already decent, they really don't need much of anything else.

The end result

[b][color="#8B0000"]Progan[/color][/b]

Over all Damage Output 5
Shield Cap 5
Shield Regen 4
Energy Cap 2
Engine Sig 2
Engine Speed 3
Resistance 3

Total: 24

[color="#008000"][b]Jenquai[/b][/color]

Over all Damage Output 4
Shield Cap 2
Shield Regen 5
Energy Cap 4
Engine Sig 5
Engine Speed 2
Resistance 2

Total: 24

[color="#00BFFF"][b]Terran[/b][/color]

Over all Damage Output 4
Shield Cap 3
Shield Regen 2
Energy Cap 2
Engine Sig 3
Engine Speed 5
Resistance 5

Total: 24



Lastly, Engine, Reactor, and Device suggestions are made around balancing the stats even more, and will be to push the player to be more active in activating devices then having them passive all of the time. And their usefulness should increase (for the suggestions posted) Edited by Talar
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Please note, my intention is not to nerf, but to balance across the board while at the same time causing the races to be more diversified from each other; to the extent that they don't (always) (notice i said always) want to use other race's Tech. The link between the races should be far and few between, Not i roll a jenquai or progan, and the best in slot item is always this one. (this again voids all the other game componants and kills the market/Trade industry).
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The problem is that your idea don't address the fact that only certain qualities of each item generally have a high value, and therefore doesn't really solve the problem you are finding.

For example, recharge on a shield is basically useless in combat because shields don't recharge while taking damage or cloaked. That's why cap wins out. Also resists cap at 50, so a high resist low cap shield isn't actually an advantage because in groups fighting hard content your resists are already maxed out w/o needing resists from a shield. (TE w/max Rally and equipment boosting rally skill alone caps all resists) I've been in groups where every resist was near 100 or higher. Now if this resist shield increased the resist cap, it would become very viable to trade out for a max capacity shield in groups where you are sitting well over cap in everything.

With reactors, recharge on the other hand is way higher of a priority overall because in long fights where you'll burn through 10x your reactors cap in energy over the course of the fight either way, it's sustainability that is king.

Engines, low signature and buffs are top priority, but its mostly signature that renders 95% of engines useless. Flying around with a 7k+ Sig just is completely impractical based off mob aggro ranges as they are currently Everyone who's not n exploration class or has the scan skill would be aggroing mobs they couldn't even see yet. And unless you're in a full group keeping an entire nav clear, you have to be able to see mobs before they engage you as a practical matter of planning combat.

The damage types, the issue is Plasma gets bonus damage vs shields, (including bio mobs which are 100% shields) That means whenever you have a plasma debugger available, Plasma is always the best choice because even mobs w/hulls are usually more shield than hull, and game mechanics don't really make it feasable to change ammo mob to mob. (You'd need a way to hotkey it so one button swapped all your guns at the same time, and even then that doesn't help beam users, who are the ones carrying the best Plasma debuffers anyways)

Chem is supposed to be the hull equivalent of Plasma, but there are so few mobs with greater hull than shields that it's basically relegated to use by classes doling w/o access to a Plasma debuff. In reality, using Plasma ammo is basically like getting an extra 20-25% debuff free on most mobs.

Nice theories you have, unfortunately they'd just require more than item tweaks (a complete re-design of combat mechanics in several cases) to ever become practical
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Excellent reply. Bringing knowledge to the table that was unknown.
Solution for the Lack of racial diversity is why i was suggesting these changes.
The Solution to specific Mods/components being useless is to Balance out all none-Merchant sold Items, to be about the same(But changing out buffs on them, or their benefit).

Example

lets say you have the following

[b]Item one[/b] [color="#FFFACD"][color="#FFFF00"][b](item 1 is merchand sold, 2 and 3 are drops)[/b][/color][/color]

Tps = Tank Per Second (meaning the damage you need to break the tank on passive)

[b]Item One
[/b]
Description Basic Progen Shield.
Race Progen Only
Cap 54
Recharge Rate 1.80

Sustained Tank: 7.5 tps


[b]Item Two
[/b]Basic Terran Shield.
Cap: 50
Recharge: 1.80

Sustained Tank: 6.9 tps

[b]Item 3
Basic Jenquai Shield.[/b]
Cap: 45
Recharge: 1.80

Sustained Tank: 6.3 tps

Now lets look at none Vendor Items ([u]keeping in mind they are not usually class restricted[/u])

The Shield O' Lantern, from Play-O.
Cap: 80
Recharge: 5.00

Sustained Tank: 40 tps


Do you see the issue now?

These is a major difference here, and this is only level 1 gear.
The fix is to balance them something like this. To something like this;

The Shield O' Lantern, from Play-O.
Cap: 80
Recharge: 2.00

Sustained Tank: 10 tps


A change from 40 to 10 Tps. Is huge.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Everything you talk about in this thread is in relation to combat, which is only ONE THIRD of the character leveling system. Balancing combat among the races/classes would utterly destroy the overall balance of the game. Besides, this is not a PvP game (and hopefully never will be), so balancing the combat ability of the classes is completely counterproductive to promoting diversity.

JE's are not supposed to be very good at combat. Similarly, PW's are not supposed to be very good at trade runs. Every class is weak in one of the three areas (combat, explore, trade). The diversity among the classes comes from the unique way in which their strengths and weakness line up. (ie: JD's are strong in combat, good in explore, and weak in trade. PW's are amazing in combat, weak in both trade/explore. etc)

If this game ever suffers from having combat-balanced classes, it will lose any and all appeal it ever held in my eyes.
  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='Yuritau' timestamp='1316322295' post='46241']
Everything you talk about in this thread is in relation to combat, which is only ONE THIRD of the character leveling system. Balancing combat among the races/classes would utterly destroy the overall balance of the game. Besides, this is not a PvP game (and hopefully never will be), so balancing the combat ability of the classes is completely counterproductive to promoting diversity.

JE's are not supposed to be very good at combat. Similarly, PW's are not supposed to be very good at trade runs. Every class is weak in one of the three areas (combat, explore, trade). The diversity among the classes comes from the unique way in which their strengths and weakness line up. (ie: JD's are strong in combat, good in explore, and weak in trade. PW's are amazing in combat, weak in both trade/explore. etc)

If this game ever suffers from having combat-balanced classes, it will lose any and all appeal it ever held in my eyes.
[/quote]


Agree... the healers for example shouldnt get balanced so they can kill like a warrior... thats just silly.. Their job is to heal the warrior imo. Just a simplistic example from this peanut gallery (I'm not a decision maker ie DEV, I just fix your ingame problems where I can hehe).

Balance was never a crucial focus of EnB and never should be. All classes and races are unique. Part of the reason you didnt see the 3 missing classes was Live DEVs were busy trying to find a way to properly implement them as well as EA not letting creative run to wild due to budget and eventual looming closure. But ya with them here it adds a whole new can of worms to tackle, and balancing shouldn't be a priority when we still have mission issues, lag issues, missing drops, etc etc etc... Those imo are fine tweaks that can be made once we address more important issues at this stage of the game which btw is Pre-Alpha.

Just ask new players who never played EnB how it is trying to come into EnB with no guidance, no tutorial no help guide... They not to worried about their JE tanking a Raid... Thus attracting anything more then the current salt of the land we have in our seasoned veterans (yes I understand they need attention too but have to understand this isn't a full fledged game thats main focus is content - even though some DEVs try to give giblets of content here in there to wet our appetite. I direct those nay say'ers to other games that are even BETA stage and try to compare those to what we have here and the task the DEVs have to deal with in limited capacity/capabilities...
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[b]Iv thought of some Revisions to Terran, Instead of Defenses, It may be better to give them a passive, that increases missile travel speed.[/b]

Firstly.


Im not preposing changes to the current classes, as i am to the entire race. The damage changes should still be about the same for each class (all ships might get like 1-2% Dmg increase).

The changes are ment to take the 3 races in different directions, help motivate them to use Their races technology (but still giving options to cross breed, and giving a few "better options" for it), And help Balance the components.

With due respect, All i have heard is Anti-Change idea's, due to the fact of people believing its a nerf, or an ultra beef, but [u]thats not what i am perposing. [/u]


[color="#00BFFF"]90% Componants in the game are useless. [/color]

[color="#008000"]All classes has BiS Items (except when in regards to weapons; Then its based on a race wide BiS list, rather then cross-Faction).[/color]


[u][b]These are the issues. They need to be resolved. diversifying the three races would greatly improve the game play.[/b][/u]

The suggestive changes do effect all classes, but not in a major way. The changes are more tweaks then balancing issues. Thought teaks came make a big difference sometimes, the only thing i really see being changed, is improvement to the game.


[color="#008000"][b]Each race having two or three damage types[/b][/color]

Gives the race diversity, and the ability to swap damage types around for various grinding locations.

Since this is a PvE Based game, there is really no harm to it.


[b]Jenquai having Regeneritive shielding[/b]

The race is built around burst. having the ability to hit, cloak and regen gives them a little less downtime.
(see progran for why regen is better on jenquai then progan)

[b]Jenquai Having Lower Shielding Caps (in return for higher regen)[/b]

This suits their concept of game play. Their are an burst, ambush based race. hitting killing 1-2, then hiding for 5-10 seconds is their objective. Regen shielding, and DoT Based attacked excel at this. This also gives the healers a easier time in raids as the Jenquai can just passive heal, while the healers focus on PW for tanking.


[i]Passive tanking may be an option to investigate for later levels[/i]


[color="#00BFFF"] Terran Missile speed passive[/color]

This seems to be something upsetting players, and an issue with the race. this kind of passive would help the terrans shine as a range damage dealer.


[b]Projan Cap King Shield changes.[/b]

Reducing the projan regen by 10-15% and increaing the cap for 15-20% Would enable some major tweaks to projan.
This would first of all be more of an active race, having the ability to spam their shield inversion more; Give the healers more room to heal them; And enable them to take a little more damage.


[size="5"][b]Please explain Why these changes are a bad idea; And why they are a Good idea, and even tweak it to be more viable.[/b][/size]
So what is the issue here? Edited by Talar
  • Downvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

>> [i]My responses look like this.[/i]

[quote name='Talar' timestamp='1316334758' post='46243']
The changes are ment to take the 3 races in different directions, help motivate them to use Their races technology (but still giving options to cross breed, and giving a few "better options" for it), And help Balance the components.

>> [i]There is already plenty of incentive to use your own race's tech. It's called equipment buffs. Progen (please learn to spell this word already) get to decide if they want to use a progen reactor that makes their Projectiles handle better, for example, or a terran/pirate reactor that might have a higher energy capacity and regen, but no relevant equipment buffs.[/i]

With due respect, All i have heard is Anti-Change idea's, due to the fact of people believing its a nerf, or an ultra beef, but [u]thats not what i am perposing.

>> [i]Most of the responses I've seen in this thread are more in the category of "It ain't broke, stop trying to fix it" than they are "stop nerfing". You're trying to change this game into something that we don't want.[/i]

Each race having two or three damage types

>> [i]This is already true. Jenquai have Energy/EMP/Plasma, Terran have EMP/Chem/Explosive/Plasma, Progen have Impact/Chem/Plasma. There's a few weapons in the game that don't follow that breakdown (prototype projectiles are explosive , for example), but they are definitely in the minority.[/i]

Jenquai having Regeneritive shielding

>> [i]You've already been told in this thread that shields don't regen in combat or while cloaked.[/i]

Jenquai Having Lower Shielding Caps (in return for higher regen)

>> [i]Jenquai already have lower shield caps, and see above for regen.[/i]

Passive tanking may be an option to investigate for later levels

>> [i]The nature of tanking makes this idea ridiculous.[/i]

Terran Missile speed passive [buff]

>> [i]Possibly the only thing you've said in this thread that I didn't immediately hate.[/i]

Projan Cap King Shield changes.

Reducing the projan regen by 10-15% and increaing the cap for 15-20% Would enable some major tweaks to projan.
This would first of all be more of an active race, having the ability to spam their shield inversion more; Give the healers more room to heal them; And enable them to take a little more damage.

>> [i]Progen are already the kings of shield cap. They don't need more. If the BF9 and CFB etc aren't enough shield cap for you, bring a trader.[/i]

Please explain Why these changes are a bad idea; And why they are a Good idea, and even tweak it to be more viable.

>> [i]As I said previously, these are bad ideas because they try to make the game into something it's not, something it was never supposed to be.[/i]
[/quote]
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='Talar' timestamp='1316334900' post='46244']
By the way rojo, [b]Balance was never a crucial focus of EnB and never should be. All classes and races are unique[/b]

Then why is it all the races use the same reactors, shields etc (give or take)?
[/quote]

That has nothing to do with class or race balance. That's just a matter of X reactor has the best stats, so I'm going to use it. No matter what you do with item balance, there will ALWAYS be one item for each slot that is considered "the best".
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The changes are ment to take the 3 races in different directions, help motivate them to use Their races technology (but still giving options to cross breed, and giving a few "better options" for it), And help Balance the components.

[b][color="#00BFFF"]>> There is already plenty of incentive to use your own race's tech. It's called equipment buffs. Progen (please learn to spell this word already) get to decide if they want to use a progen reactor that makes their Projectiles handle better, for example, or a terran/pirate reactor that might have a higher energy capacity and regen, but no relevant equipment buffs.[/color][/b]

[color="#8B0000"][b] Not Enuff. As it stands now 80-90% of the components in game are Not used, Or if are, they are underrated. Bottem line, To many components are idling around.
[/b][/color]

With due respect, All i have heard is Anti-Change idea's, due to the fact of people believing its a nerf, or an ultra beef, but [u]thats not what i am perposing.
[b]


[color="#00BFFF"]>> Most of the responses I've seen in this thread are more in the category of "It ain't broke, stop trying to fix it" than they are "stop nerfing". You're trying to change this game into something that we don't want.
[/color][/b]

[color="#8B0000"][b]No, I am trying to Suggest ways to make the game better, and get feed back form fellow players on it. Do you have a mouse in your pocket, Because i recall you being 1 person, no 2 ore more.[/b][/color]

[color="#8B0000"][b]"If it any broke, stop trying to fix it", Is not always applied to all things. In the case of MMO's Like EnB, adding things, to diversify the game would greatly improve the customization of the game, Allowing each person to tailor it to his or her needs, desires. Increasing the fun and originality factor. Further, if almost all or all of the stuff is balanced. Then there cannot be "Best in slot" Type idea's or concepts, As each role will have its design, or build, it can be countered by another equally creative build.
[/b][/color]

Each race having two or three damage types

[b][color="#00BFFF"]>> This is already true. Jenquai have Energy/EMP/Plasma, Terran have EMP/Chem/Explosive/Plasma, Progen have Impact/Chem/Plasma. There's a few weapons in the game that don't follow that breakdown (prototype projectiles are explosive , for example), but they are definitely in the minority.
[/color][/b]

[color="#8B0000"][b]This is not the case. Damage types are usually 1 type on each weapon (IE this laser is EMP, that one is plasma). And though the concept of the races have 2 or 3 damage types, in practically they really only have 1, or two (for some races). It really depends, but it'd be nice to see Launchers be customized to use multiple types of ammo, rather then 1 launcher uses explosive ammo, 1 uses Impact, 1 uses emp, etc. This way say if i had a launcher that shoots three missiles, but i can only use explosion damage with it, if i had wanted to, i could change that to EMP. this is important as it allows players to change damage types to suit their situation "on the fly"[/b][/color]


Jenquai having Regeneritive shielding

[b][color="#00BFFF"]>> You've already been told in this thread that shields don't regen in combat or while cloaked.
[/color][/b]
[b][color="#8B0000"]Shields regen in combat. However, Even if this was not the case. It should be. As we have seen people argue that projen's need high shield regen, but why does that matter if the shields dont regen in combat as you say?[/color][/b]

Jenquai Having Lower Shielding Caps (in return for higher regen)

[b][color="#00BFFF"] >> Jenquai already have lower shield caps, and see above for regen.[/color]
[/b]
[b][color="#8B0000"] Missing the Point. I am trying to emphasize the regen. If the regen for a level 9 reactor is 1000, I am suggesting giving jenquai 1500-2500 Regen.[/color][/b]


Passive tanking may be an option to investigate for later levels

[b][color="#00BFFF"] >> The nature of tanking makes this idea ridiculous.[/color]
[/b]
[color="#8B0000"][b]How so? Passive tanking (Tanking through pure regen, and regen effects) Is common in many games, Even none space mmo's.[/b][/color]


Terran Missile speed passive [buff]

[b][color="#00BFFF"] >> Possibly the only thing you've said in this thread that I didn't immediately hate.[/color]
[/b]
[color="#8B0000"][b]Its a much needed change.And it will help terrans a lot.[/b][/color]


Projan Cap King Shield changes.

Reducing the projan regen by 10-15% and increaing the cap for 15-20% Would enable some major tweaks to projan.
This would first of all be more of an active race, having the ability to spam their shield inversion more; Give the healers more room to heal them; And enable them to take a little more damage.

[b][color="#00BFFF"] >> Progen are already the kings of shield cap. They don't need more. If the BF9 and CFB etc aren't enough shield cap for you, bring a trader.[/color]
[/b]

[color="#8B0000"][b]Again, I am trying to emphasize things.[/b][/color]

Please explain Why these changes are a bad idea; And why they are a Good idea, and even tweak it to be more viable.
[b]
[color="#00BFFF"] >> As I said previously, these are bad ideas because they try to make the game into something it's not, something it was never supposed to be[/color].[/b]
  • Downvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='Yuritau' timestamp='1316368719' post='46269']
That has nothing to do with class or race balance. That's just a matter of X reactor has the best stats, so I'm going to use it. No matter what you do with item balance, there will ALWAYS be one item for each slot that is considered "the best".
[/quote]


People have different play styles, One likes to kite, one likes to Absorb damage.
Because of this there is a BIS for each field, but when you have 1 item for all concepts and fields, and all races/classes there is an issue.
  • Downvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='Talar' timestamp='1316431826' post='46301' ]
This is not the case. Damage types are usually 1 type on each weapon (IE this laser is EMP, that one is plasma). And though the concept of the races have 2 or 3 damage types, in practically they really only have 1, or two (for some races). It really depends, but it'd be nice to see Launchers be customized to use multiple types of ammo, rather then 1 launcher uses explosive ammo, 1 uses Impact, 1 uses emp, etc. This way say if i had a launcher that shoots three missiles, but i can only use explosion damage with it, if i had wanted to, i could change that to EMP. this is important as it allows players to change damage types to suit their situation "on the fly"[/quote]
Most Missile Launchers and Projectile weapons come with 2-4 different damage types. A few don't that are content/storyline related. Others with fewer(or less desire-able) damage types often have higher dps or better buffs than the others, offsetting the limited options.

Beams are all 1 damage type, and would appear to be a true sufferer of this, as EMP is worthless as a damage type, and Energy is always inferior to plasma for dps. However, the energy/emp beams are great for support classes(anyone without Crit Targeting), becuase of the various buffs they offer. They're more of a device than weapon, enabling them to trade a useless weapon slot for another device slot.
While their may be 40 different lines of beams to choose from, only about 4-5 are meant to be run for serious dps, and have an inverted dps to reload time relation, to give you a choice for your class/playstyle, shooting less often is safer but has lower output, shooting more often is riskier with higher output.

[quote name='Talar' timestamp='1316431826' post='46301' ]
Shields regen in combat. However, Even if this was not the case. It should be. As we have seen people argue that projen's need high shield regen, but why does that matter if the shields dont regen in combat as you say?
[/quote]
Shields do not regenerate for 10 seconds after taking any form of damage, for both players and mobs, changing this would require a complete overhaul of just about every mobs shield recharge value.
In Live, they also did not regenerate while cloaked.
Having a high shield recharge value is only important when soloing, without any form of healer available, as it reduces the amount of time spent out of combat waiting to recharge. It was important at one time to avoid taking radiation damage, as each field gave a set amount of reduced recharge, which if it went negative would instantly drain your shield.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='will' timestamp='1316436934' post='46314']
Most Missile Launchers and Projectile weapons come with 2-4 different damage types. A few don't that are content/storyline related. Others with fewer(or less desire-able) damage types often have higher dps or better buffs than the others, offsetting the limited options.

Beams are all 1 damage type, and would appear to be a true sufferer of this, as EMP is worthless as a damage type, and Energy is always inferior to plasma for dps. However, the energy/emp beams are great for support classes(anyone without Crit Targeting), becuase of the various buffs they offer. They're more of a device than weapon, enabling them to trade a useless weapon slot for another device slot.
While their may be 40 different lines of beams to choose from, only about 4-5 are meant to be run for serious dps, and have an inverted dps to reload time relation, to give you a choice for your class/playstyle, shooting less often is safer but has lower output, shooting more often is riskier with higher output.


Shields do not regenerate for 10 seconds after taking any form of damage, for both players and mobs, changing this would require a complete overhaul of just about every mobs shield recharge value.
In Live, they also did not regenerate while cloaked.
Having a high shield recharge value is only important when soloing, without any form of healer available, as it reduces the amount of time spent out of combat waiting to recharge. It was important at one time to avoid taking radiation damage, as each field gave a set amount of reduced recharge, which if it went negative would instantly drain your shield.
[/quote]



There is a trigger that is stoping the regen in combat. Its something like this

If player takes [%Damage$] Then Excute [%script Regen%]
[%script Regen%] If player takes [%Damage$] Disable Shield Generation for [%Duration%]

The result is in combat regen is not off during combat, but is designed to regen intermittently.
This is primarily the case for fighting against mobs with alpha strike (direct damage with no travel time). who are subject to this.

Missles are an acception as it takes time for the missle to travel, and the themselves are already over the regen - Restart point.
Basically,by default weapon choice; Terran regen more in combat then the other races.

Deleting this String would cause in combat regen to be full. though it may be better (And easier) just to change the 10 Second rule to 2-3 seconds.

Cloaking also has a similar effect.

When cloaked Disable shield regen. Easy Fixes.
  • Downvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Could shields be changes to rwgen while taking damaged/cloaked... Yes. But that would be a massive game mechanics change that would involve much more than the already enormous task of re-doing practically every item in the game you suggest.

You'd have to rebalance not only every shield, but every device/skill affecting shields, every mob in the game, probably every weapon/environental affect that does damage... The list goes on. Now would giving Jenquai shields the unique ability to regenerate during combat be a cool concept, yes. It's just really not feasable at this point. The same I true for many of your overhauls, the work involved would set the entire project back months if not more, for a very debatable benefit in moat areas.

Every game has 90%+ items that are useless endgame and only serve the purpose of vein easier to aquire until you can get the better stuff. That's just the way it has always been.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

90% of items in other games are not useless.
Every item that drops in a raid instance, Give or take one or Two is used by some class as a primary raid item.

90% of items in EnB are not used, Period.

Limited thinking when it comes to changing the cloaking, and regen effects of combat.
You dont have to change all of the components, thats the long way of doing it. You end the algorithm that controls how much damage you receive from a mob.

Also you could just change combat damage regen to 5 seconds, and enable it during cloaking, and it would make regen more viable.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

One thing you seem to be ignoring is that each race can use other races' equipment. Progen cannot use Jenquai and vice versa, but outside of that restriction Progen can use Terran engines, Terrans can use Jenquai reactors, and Jenquai can use either Terran or Red Dragon shields. (Which typically are second strongest to Progen) The L8 restriction to Jenquai shields ensures that Jenquai cannot use level 9 TERRAN shields. Which can be almost as powerful as Progen shields.

In addition, each of the races' systems are designed around the weaker systems getting a secondary buff. Jenquai shields, while they are the weakest, can add a deflect, making that shield powerful against a particular weapon type. Progen beams, while they are the weakest beam types, have a very long recharge time, giving them high burst damage, and they usually add a buff such as to a Sentinel's Prospect skill. While you will usually choose the system that is the most powerful overall, you have a choice to select another races' system if you find it enhances your playstyle.

The Jenquai Defender has Psi Shield because its race has weaker shields. The Jenquai have Cloak because their speciality is with the shortest ranged weaponry. The Terrans have the longest ranged weaponry because their Engines are the most powerful, making kiting more viable. And missiles use the least amount of energy. If your goal is to rebalance the races so they all get level 9 in all systems, then their skills will need to be rebalanced too. Jenquai kiting with Cloak (with level 9 engines and missiles) would just be too overpowered.

As for shields regenerating during combat, that's the point of having a large capacity shield, not large regen. Again, Defenders have a huge advantage there, because as long as Psi Shield stays up, the shields don't TAKE damage. It's more the reactor that runs out. Combat for a warrior, or any class that kills quickly, is designed around finishing off the foe before either your shield or reactor runs out. If you could continue to kill at that rate indefinately, you would quickly leave the classes that CAN'T kill quickly behind.

The main thing is, someone will still figure out what the "best" system is for any given set of stats. As long as you give the player the choice, that choice will 90% of the time be for the "best". Your idea doesn't change anything unless you actually RESTRICT the Jenquai to using Jenquai equipment and nothing else. Edited by Dragoncove
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think that the shields we have as Jenquai are actually okay for our purpose. Between Cloak, Coma, and Fold Space, I can kill things over my CL with my JE and not take much damage, provided I get 1 on 1 fights, and don't make any mistakes. It's not quick to kill something with a JE/JT, but it can be done, stealthily. I find that when fighting solo with my JT she uses Fold Space far more than Recharge Shields, which she only uses to cover mistakes. It also helps that she can debuff both energy & plasma. When the Coma works fully, avoiding damage will be even better.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='Talar' timestamp='1316456786' post='46328']
90% of items in other games are not useless.
Every item that drops in a raid instance, Give or take one or Two is used by some class as a primary raid item.

90% of items in EnB are not used, Period.

Limited thinking when it comes to changing the cloaking, and regen effects of combat.
You dont have to change all of the components, thats the long way of doing it. You end the algorithm that controls how much damage you receive from a mob.

Also you could just change combat damage regen to 5 seconds, and enable it during cloaking, and it would make regen more viable.
[/quote]

You're still talking about very fundamental changes to how combat works in this game. Changes that would create MONTHS of work for a volunteer dev team to re-balance. And the only gain would be what? 2-3 extra viable options per item slot?

Screw that. If you're really so annoyed by the current itemization choices, suggest changes to current items to make them more competitive. Don't f*@$ around with core game mechanics.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...