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Mimir

New Pop Rock whine

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[quote name='Mimir' timestamp='1316484272' post='46363']
You have been all over the place with this... Just what do you want? From what I see from your original post was that you wanted MORE of the ores in the pop rocks, you wanted to travel less distance to get those ores and you didn’t want to spend any more time getting what you needed/wanted in the way of ores than you absolutely had to do to get them. [/quote]

No, no, no. How could you get that from my original post?

All I said was that as long as the ores are available in the field, there is no need for pop rocks. If there is a need for more VOLUME of ores because the supply can't meet the demand, that should be supplied by an increase in ores in the FIELD. But that is not the subject of the discussion here. If you and other players feel you SHOULD discuss that, then you should. But it's not an issue that should be solved with pop rocks.

I don't take a stand either way. I think the availability of high level ores on live WAS too low, but the emulator is apparently much more generous. The problem doesn't appear to be volume, but lack of viable fields. I can't comment on that directly, though, that is just observation, and the numbers of fields does appear to be increasing.

I have no idea how you concluded I wanted to have less travel time. I did ask you how you felt scarcity would INCREASE travel time. Once you know where the ore spawns, it's just a matter of waiting for it.

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[quote name='Tienbau' timestamp='1316499399' post='46375']
um ...

so we're happy with the way the pop rocks work now? Or did you want me to change anything else?

I think the boom should be a bit bigger, I got the formula a bit wrong for everything other than the level 9 poppers.[/quote]

I did hear a conversation from someone on the New Players channel, claiming that he could no longer mine until he reached level 50, because he was insta-killed by a pop rock of the same level of his shield. Let's just say he was being overly dramatic. I was unable to confirm that I could get killed by a pop rock the same level as my shield, or if the other player had actually tried to mine a higher level rock instead. At any rate, it was pointed out that you can just avoid pop rocks if you don't have the resiliance to take their explosion.

I like seeing MOBs being spawned again. And I like the stack size being reduced to normal level. Now that they can be mined, that's just what they should be, a risk for a little extra bonus. Maybe even a chance to earn some Combat XP for the MOB. Edited by Dragoncove

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[quote name='Dragoncove' timestamp='1316532810' post='46394']
No, no, no. How could you get that from my original post?

All I said was that as long as the ores are available in the field, there is no need for pop rocks. If there is a need for more VOLUME of ores because the supply can't meet the demand, that should be supplied by an increase in ores in the FIELD. But that is not the subject of the discussion here. If you and other players feel you SHOULD discuss that, then you should. But it's not an issue that should be solved with pop rocks.

I don't take a stand either way. I think the availability of high level ores on live WAS too low, but the emulator is apparently much more generous. The problem doesn't appear to be volume, but lack of viable fields. I can't comment on that directly, though, that is just observation, and the numbers of fields does appear to be increasing.

I have no idea how you concluded I wanted to have less travel time. I did ask you how you felt scarcity would INCREASE travel time. Once you know where the ore spawns, it's just a matter of waiting for it.
[/quote]


[size="7"]LOL[/size]

It only took 3 days to find we were both saying the same thing.

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[quote name='Mimir' timestamp='1316534366' post='46396']
[size="7"]LOL[/size]

It only took 3 days to find we were both saying the same thing.
[/quote]

That's actually what I figured. :)

I suspect that you got caught up in my timeframe of "a couple of minutes", which was for the lower levels anyway. But it wasn't a solid value, just a vague sense of "you can get this done within an hour". Maybe two or three hours for 50 or 100 units. My point was that it would take about that long to search for the "jackpot" pop rock that had what you were looking for, so productivity wise it's essentially the same.

As I said, I don't think the problem is the time to clear, it's just lack of fields where something is available.

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[quote name='Tienbau' timestamp='1316515177' post='46383']
yeah good idea. Resistances are good.

The spindles were energy resistant?? No wonder it took me so long to kill them with my beams!
[/quote]

Yeah, in Live I had trouble with them too (the Red Spindles), until another player told me that they were resistant to energy, and made me some low level Terran Plasma beams. Using energy beams I couldn't kill them without getting hull damage (this was before I learned about Comas, Chimaeras, or Fold Kiting.). Using Plasma beams they were much easier to kill. Was killing them for one of the Ketsugo Observation Outpost missions.

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Pop rocks are in the right direction. However there needs to be a timer put on the critter that pops out. I was in VT the other day in the morning, to discover such a critter let loose by someone who thought they would give the ridiculous a try. And they left it there for the rest of us to admire... FOR THE WHOLE DAY! I don't know about the rest of you but I don't go out mining with my combat gear plugged in. I showed up at the same field later that evening to find that special someone's critter being around, but someone else decided to play asteroid craps, gave it a whirl and spawned him a friend. Luckily a well equipped TE showed up looking for them and took care of said critters.

Something I saw here I disagree with is the pristine field effect. I don't like it. But I know its not going away so how about we compromise and maybe lower the effect rate? Seeing it, is not only distracting me, but those who have to hunt around them, and this can get annoying.

The Rogue Progen issue:

The killer field in Lagarto, is, well, too killer. You guys might want to check on the mobs there periodically. The Rogue Progen patrols are borderline psychotic and are too high in number. The craziness was on no less than 3 or 4 times in the past day there, I was greeted with the howl of the lvl 48's beam, but after I cloaked, they decided to hang out instead of continuing on their merry way. One actually sat in 1 spot spinning and rotating. I found this amusing as if to hear him saying: "I know your still there little JenPie, come on out and fight you coward!" Well after a few laps around the field, he became annoying so I purposely de-cloaked to get him moving... Thats when I discovered the next issue:

The shield nova on those wayward progen does not deactivate when you cloak. And the dampening field over this place sort of makes it a real bugger to get away before being fried.

Also, I mine with a -0.0k sig, and yet these things can see me from over 6k away? And hit me from there with a beam? Wish my lvl 9's shot that far.

Anywho, thanks for reading.

-Overt.

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[quote name='Overtkill' timestamp='1316577588' post='46424']
The shield nova on those wayward progen does not deactivate when you cloak. And the dampening field over this place sort of makes it a real bugger to get away before being fried.
[/quote]

Also doesn't end if you become incapacitated, it will continue to remain active as long as they have enough shield energy.

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I don't know, if the MOB spawned by a pop rock is the same level as the field, it should be the same level as the other MOBs in the field. Or at least, I think that's the intention. (On live, MOBs spawned were relative to the level of the player who spawned them, which left the possibility for them to be much HIGHER than the field -- as well as much lower) So it should be no harder to deal with than any other MOB in the field.

OTOH, I can understand that if there are no MOBs in the field, you may not be ready for combat. You may forgo ammo for cargo space, for instance. I suppose that if normal MOBs despawn or respawn, pop MOBs should.

I would add that IMHO, it should not be necessary to go out with the most advanced combat gear available to take on a single field guardian MOB, and if it is, perhaps that is something the devs should look into. A warrior should be equipped to take on multiple MOBs, and earn Combat XP at a reasonable rate. An explorer should only need the bare minimum to take on or maybe two, unless he intentionally selects a "killer" field.

Of course, Explorers and Scouts may be at a disadvantage compared to a Sentinel, having a MOB spawn on top of them with no time for them to activate their defenses and put some distance between themselves and the target. Which is why I have suggested a half second to second delay before the MOB aggros to buy time to activate Cloak. (Or wheel around and start launching missiles for a Scout) Not sure if that's possible, though, and it shouldn't really be needed if you are prepared for the pop.

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Don't agree with the poprock mobs. I am playing a JE and I have no problems this far to take them out as they have appeared, this with mining gear. It is not like you guys don't havce guns or your ship while mining.

Further, if you can't take out the mobs in a field, maybe you are not meant to mine there? or maybe bring a friend along to kill them, you get combat exp they get explore exp.

Things are already way too easy at it is, this was a fun change for the better.
  • Upvote 1

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2 credits here:
Dragoncove, the popmobs in live were not player based, they were rock based. If you popped a mob out of a L5 rock the mob would be a lower CL than a mob from a L9 rock, irrespective of the players lvl. The mob would agro on a radius, the popper being the closest would of course be first agroed, if they fled depending on their scan range they could agro on other players, quite often JE's would be jerks and delibrately pop a mob to cloak and let it agro a PS. so the PS wouldn't compeate for ores they wanted, while the PS was dealing with the popmob the JE could mine rapidlly unmolested.

From what I've seen so far mining is moving slowly in the right direction, just needs some lvl tweeks, all the mobs I've seen pop so far have been L50-53, even from L4 and L5 rocks, this would be insta death for lower level players, if the mobs would be lvled out to field or rock it would be more approriate, allowing player appropriate mining, and higher lvl players to play escort for higher mobs and enable fields with excess poprocks to get popped effiecently by them for shared field bonus.

As pointed out in previous posts, the mobs currently lack despawner timer, this also is desirous, most mobs live had a randomized deapawner, if memory served right it was between 15-45 min., this allowed weaker combat geared players time to either wear down the mob and tackle it, or wait it out. A persistant, player even if they are mining slightly over their lvl., can over time, drop that mob given approx 30 min. getting the good CL, or they can mob on..being forbidden the ores for a time.

As to the other effects, the debuffs seem about right, debuffing for plasma and chem and I think impact Ive seen so far. The red icon helps to signify it as well as the flash-bang, what is lacking is the positive buff icons, I believe I got a thrust one, and a shield regen one, but without the icon couldn't confirm the regen. one, the thrust didn't exceed cap. since I'm near that I wouldn't be able to tell, but it did seem tohave a thrust pick up lvl. 0 to 1k much faster.

The KaBoomer! rocks seemed near perfect, was mining L5-6 ores w/ L8 DM shield and it took 1/4 -1/3 shield, if I had been on a L9 I imagine a KaBoomer! Should be near 9/10, perhaps full shield if no cap boosters are on.

Got to say over all, Great Job! A few tweeks needed and it will be near perfect.

As to Overtkills post, that seems more mob AI or area based antics, lagarto has always been a problem in progeress...lol even in live! His point on despawner needed on popmobs however, I have to second as I quoted on.

The prestine field effect...I'm split on this one, how to signal a player that the ore field might be desirous to mine for effect, without being to blatant or annoying? Great idea and attempt but I also think it also needs a tweek. The swirly-flash effect around the ores is very distracting, especially for the 3rd or 4th+ time when you are stripping a set rock type in a multi-rock type field. I would like to suggest a "aura" like effect instead, have a color band around the screen edge if possible, rather than a flash. Sort of what other MMO do when you are in combat situation, or pvp zone etc. Don't know if this MMO is geared for that, but it would seem less intrustive to do that, and not distracting to miner over time or the non-miners "twitch" reflex :)

Once again folks, congrats, job well done! (now can we have more fields? :D)

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[quote name='Mattsacre' timestamp='1316633512' post='46449']
2 credits here:
Dragoncove, the popmobs in live were not player based, they were rock based. If you popped a mob out of a L5 rock the mob would be a lower CL than a mob from a L9 rock, irrespective of the players lvl. The mob would agro on a radius, the popper being the closest would of course be first agroed, if they fled depending on their scan range they could agro on other players, quite often JE's would be jerks and delibrately pop a mob to cloak and let it agro a PS. so the PS wouldn't compeate for ores they wanted, while the PS was dealing with the popmob the JE could mine rapidlly unmolested.[/quote]

Granted, my memory is not what it used to be, but I could have sworn that MOBs normally spawned at the same level as the rock that spawned it, and low level players all complained that they were being insta-killed by MOBs all higher than their level. So the devs changed it so it spawned based on the player. Yes, I know it's silly and takes away the whole point of making it dangerous to mine above your level, but I seem to remember that's what the devs did.

At the time, pop rocks may not have been as obvious to detect, and they weren't intended to be mined anyway. (The overabundance of ores was the real clue they were dangerous) The devs may have also wanted to encourage low level miners to mine above their level in the early game because high level resources were scarce. Once ore fields became more prevalent, they may still have wanted the low level miners to make some money in the Market.

[quote]all the mobs I've seen pop so far have been L50-53, even from L4 and L5 rocks, this would be insta death for lower level players, [/quote]

This seems totally wrong if this is the case. Spawned MOBs should be encouraging miners to mine at their level, not requiring miners to ignore pop rocks until they are CL 50.

Then again, maybe your level IS having an effect. Maybe it's the rock's level unless your level is much higher, at which time it is your level? (Don't think I like that, I don't think it's a good idea for high levels to be able to come into a field and leave high level MOBs for low levels to have to deal with)

Could it also be L4 and L5 rocks in a L9 field?

I guess I need to go try and pop some rocks to do some more testing myself. Edited by Dragoncove

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It was primarily rocks in glenn and jupiter (material gathering for agrippa content), was using a L150 JE, so maybe it was my lvl not rocks.

But it NEEDS to be rock based, especially if or until mob despawner is implimented. Since the poprocks are counting towards field clearing, and its xp bonus, fields with high poprock count are difficult for low lvl players to clean out, if the mobs spawned are rock based, then a higher lvl player can help lower lvl players by taking on the poppers and sharing field clear bonus, helping the lower lvl get xp. If on the other hand the mobs are going to be player based, how many higher lvl miners are going to go the extra mile and clean it out for lower lvl miner to get the field clear bonus?

The mobs also need to be rock based, they are a indicator for players in effect, a low level miner CAN mine over their lvl via device/reactor combo, but they need to have a skill range reminder not to take on more than they can chew. If they are going to take the risk of mining L8 rocks when they are L6 skill, they also need to take the risk of L8 rock spawned mobs, not a nerfed mob to their lvl., they are taking a risk and shouldn't have "undue" enrichment and lack of risk for actions.

Also if the mobs are player based, it can be a point of contention, a high lvl player may be material gathering, spawn a mob to their lvl, and rather than bother killing it, move on...leaving that high lvl mob in a low level ore field, making it unminable by players of the appropriate lvl to that field, since there is a new, unplanned uber field guardian.

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I agree. I seem to remember complaints about that on live, high level players leaving MOBs for the lower levels to deal with, so maybe it was the other way around. That's how it was, and it was changed to "rock based".

If it's not rock based here, I feel that's what it should be, no matter what it was on live. I definately don't think it should just spawn CL53 insta-killers. :) Edited by Dragoncove

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the mobs spawned will be roughly the same combat level as the player who is mining. This is probably not right, but it does mean that any mobs poppped should be able to be dealt with by any miner.

It does have the drawback that players can spawn high level mobs in low level areas, so I guess.

I overhauled the poprock damage levels, so you might want to be careful when mining higher level poprocks.

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[quote name='Tienbau' timestamp='1316640118' post='46456']
the mobs spawned will be roughly the same combat level as the player who is mining. This is probably not right, but it does mean that any mobs poppped should be able to be dealt with by any miner.
[/quote]

Well, if that's the only way it can be implemented, or is a temporarily solution just to get it into the game, that's fine. But if the idea is to provide a greater risk to someone mining above their level, assigning it based on the field would be preferable to me. (Wouldn't fit what I remember if there's no other way to do it, but maybe you're triggering the code that was written the way it was on live? Or the "original" code that was changed?)

I honestly don't think players summoning pop MOBs to grief lowbies is THAT big a deal, IIRC you can do that with combat missions, and it's fairly common in MMOs where you have ambushes or the like. Usually, someone who is of high enough level to deal with the MOB can be called in quickly enough. And a griefer who practices that repeatedly can be dealt with accordingly. A despawn timer would probably remove even that issue.

The exploding rocks, however, as I understand, deal damage based on their level, now. So in that you still have a threat to the lowbie who is "pushing it".

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[font="Calibri"][size="3"]Here is a simple solution: Spam the new player channel telling low level miners that they might get whacked if they pull a pop rock that is above their level.[/size][/font]

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[quote name='Tienbau' timestamp='1316640118' post='46456']
the mobs spawned will be roughly the same combat level as the player who is mining. This is probably not right, but it does mean that any mobs poppped should be able to be dealt with by any miner.

It does have the drawback that players can spawn high level mobs in low level areas, so I guess.

I overhauled the poprock damage levels, so you might want to be careful when mining higher level poprocks.
[/quote]
My opinion is that the level of pop-mobs should be in relation to the level of the pop-rock, and if possible capped by the players overall level to avoid players being one-shot.

Pop-mobs should be no more than a nuisance to a high level miner mining below their level, which is achieved by leveling pop-mobs on pop-rock level.

Limiting the pop-mobs CL to say 10 levels over the players level (10 + OL/3) should allow players mining above their level to survive but still give them a bit of a scare...

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[quote name='Knix' timestamp='1316675917' post='46482']
My opinion is that the level of pop-mobs should be in relation to the level of the pop-rock, and if possible capped by the players overall level to avoid players being one-shot.

Pop-mobs should be no more than a nuisance to a high level miner mining below their level, which is achieved by leveling pop-mobs on pop-rock level.

Limiting the pop-mobs CL to say 10 levels over the players level (10 + OL/3) should allow players mining above their level to survive but still give them a bit of a scare...
[/quote]

poppers are limited to between CL and CL+3 currently, of the miner in question - but yeah it should be a function of the field level too. Especially if the field is a lower level.

this was, as you've guessed just something temporary so I could get the code working.

I'll change it so it's limited by field level, so I'll start with:

field level 1: max MOB CL 2
field level 2: max MOB CL 5
field level 3: max MOB CL 8
field level 4: max MOB CL 14
field level 5: max MOB CL 20
field level 6: max MOB CL 28
field level 7: max MOB CL 35
field level 8: max MOB CL 40
field level 9: max MOB CL 55

so, if the player is lower lvl than the nominal MOB CL for the level spawn, I'll just take a half-way house, which should give the miner just enough time to evacuate.

We can take it from there.

TB

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I've also given each of the different pop rock mobs that spawn (there will be 5 after the restart) strengths and weaknesses to certain damage types, that are specific to each mob type. It will be up to you to work out those strengths and weaknesses ..

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Curious TB, I have noted the red icons for popdebuff rocks, and the flashbang effect, and the audio downward pitch whine, all good btw! But I have yet to see positive popbuff rocks icon, I see a flashbang, and assending pitched whine, however no icon designating what, if anything buffed. The only positive (if I wasn't just imagining it) was a increase in thrust ratio, not exceeding the cap of which I'm already at.

Which leads me to ask, is there positive buffrocks? If so, is there a corresponding buff icon intended and its not showing? Or someting in works? If not a positive buff as of yet, I want to confirm I'm not just imagining things, if so I want to keep my eyes peeled for them, and would love a icon giving a clue to what it is.

I remember some of the +buffs were a mixed bag but were a source of amusement at times :), going from 0-500km in 1 sec. was a +buff but when mining not so plus hehe, the plus buffs for resists sometimes came in real handy when a popmob sprang up, especially that one that turned you all golden or 30 sec or so, making you godly.

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[quote name='Mattsacre' timestamp='1317058375' post='46668']
Curious TB, I have noted the red icons for popdebuff rocks, and the flashbang effect, and the audio downward pitch whine, all good btw! But I have yet to see positive popbuff rocks icon, I see a flashbang, and assending pitched whine, however no icon designating what, if anything buffed. The only positive (if I wasn't just imagining it) was a increase in thrust ratio, not exceeding the cap of which I'm already at.

Which leads me to ask, is there positive buffrocks? If so, is there a corresponding buff icon intended and its not showing? Or someting in works? If not a positive buff as of yet, I want to confirm I'm not just imagining things, if so I want to keep my eyes peeled for them, and would love a icon giving a clue to what it is.

I remember some of the +buffs were a mixed bag but were a source of amusement at times :), going from 0-500km in 1 sec. was a +buff but when mining not so plus hehe, the plus buffs for resists sometimes came in real handy when a popmob sprang up, especially that one that turned you all golden or 30 sec or so, making you godly.
[/quote]

Oh ok, thanks for those pointers - I'll see if I can find that effect.

The only +ve buff at the moment is reactor charge, you'll see this as a positive effect when it happens. If nothing happens it's just a BOOM rock.

I'll do a restart with the new mob code and add some more +ve buffs (resists), especially now I know we can have buffs AND spawn a mob. It'll be easy anyway because I can just have the same debuffs also in buffs.

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So I WAS imagining the thruster +buff :), dint even notice the + reactor regen since I was buffed out the wazzoo anyway. *rubs hands* I'm keeping my eyes peeled for that other candy...getting the sweats and twitchs thinking about the old fun stuff...its what made us miners the half nut- ore haulers we were. Most the shoot twitchers didn't get it hehe, it's sort of hypnotic and relaxing to pull ores, and wondering what you would find/ have happen next was half the joy.

Oh the joy I would get when I'd happen on a ore field with a hulk or 2 and find prime rares or Digi high end gear, had my own little whisper chant: "don't-blow-up-please-please-please", and when it didn't was like christmas morning :) or when it did a frown face and pout, but new resolve to find/get the next great find.

Keep up the good work TB, when its all in and tweeked the old timers are going to travel memory lane, and the noobs are going to get a wha da!?! giggle or three.
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[quote name='Tienbau' timestamp='1317077029' post='46688']
Oh ok, thanks for those pointers - I'll see if I can find that effect.

The only +ve buff at the moment is reactor charge, you'll see this as a positive effect when it happens. If nothing happens it's just a BOOM rock.

I'll do a restart with the new mob code and add some more +ve buffs (resists), especially now I know we can have buffs AND spawn a mob. It'll be easy anyway because I can just have the same debuffs also in buffs.
[/quote]

I've seen this reactor charge, it has the same icon as Reactor Optimization, saying that it increase cap and recharge, but it only increases reactor recharge, not capacity. And does so to rediculous amounts, reactor was instantly refilling, no chance to drain it, not sure if that amount was intended, but the duration was short enough that maybe it was.

I've also seen a increase scan range buff, which overides/is overridden by the device buff, poprock amount was slightly less, so partially a debuff since they overide each other.

Various deflect debuffs, up to -86, with duration inverse to amount as appropriate.

An Increased signature debuff icon, which actaully decreases your signature by a lot, my JE went from .5k to -4.6k, and from .1k to -5.0k. Either the icon or the effect is incorrect.

A Warp Interdict debuff, fully functional. "Warp drive OFFLINE"

The glowing/flowing animation on your ship when one of the buffs occurs never ends, not sure which ones though.

The Stone Leech(L50+) family of mobs is dropping Bullywere body parts, level appropriate at least. Also drops a L7 equipment, but it was loot-only , with no other drop location.

The Rock Spore(L50+) family of mobs is dropping L2 body parts, and L1 equipment, definently not level appropriate.

L8 poprocks consistently doing about 6-8k damage, when its just damage, no debuffs/mobs.

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[quote name='Tienbau' timestamp='1316640118' post='46456']
I overhauled the poprock damage levels, so you might want to be careful when mining higher level poprocks.
[/quote]

Too bad I didn't read this earlier :) My pop rock experience so far:
1 debuff (forget which exactly)
2 incaps.

It certainly does provide more of a pause. Earlier I wouldn't hesitate to pop them since I would only lose about 3/4 my shield. Now when I'm "pushing it" (ie mining 7-9s when I can refine 5) I may be more apt to leave them alone. Still if lvl 8's are doing 6-8k damage, that would explain why my not even lvl 70 will die.

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[quote name='Dakynos' timestamp='1317157114' post='46762']
Too bad I didn't read this earlier :) My pop rock experience so far:
1 debuff (forget which exactly)
2 incaps.

It certainly does provide more of a pause. Earlier I wouldn't hesitate to pop them since I would only lose about 3/4 my shield. Now when I'm "pushing it" (ie mining 7-9s when I can refine 5) I may be more apt to leave them alone. Still if lvl 8's are doing 6-8k damage, that would explain why my not even lvl 70 will die.
[/quote]

DPS's and poprock damages have been overhauled, currently the server isn't running the new stuff, but will after the next restart.

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