Is it intended that prices do not match those on live?

[ryleyra]

I had recorded a large number of prices on items back in the day when I played this game, and have always assumed the devs here got a list of all of those items and their prices and employed it in their emulator. However, I find on double checking it that the values are not the same, at least for the handful of level 1-4 items that I checked. Components, I found, were about 3-4 times higher in price than on live, which should definately impact the sale price of those items. Weapons seemed to be about 1.5 times higher, although this started lower at level 1, and went higher as the level went up. Reactors were really strange, the two I priced, the Pluton and Callipus, were about the same price, but the Callipus was more expensive on live, and the Pluton more expensive here.

EDIT: Ore prices are not the same as live. Trade Routes are, for the most part the same as live. (Those that aren't new routes, anyway)

Now, I suppose it is possible that during the lifetime of E&B, the prices were changed, and I just didn't notice. The devs may also have not had a list of the equipment prices, like they might have with the ores and trade goods (perhaps they went from lists compiled by players) and thus they made them up. As long as the prices are consistent with each other, I don't mind. And I don't have enough data collected to completely reproduce the prices on live anyway.

I suppose I am just bringing this up to make sure that this is known, by both the players and the devs, and to be sure what the strategy is in the "new" pricing. I'd be happy to supply my notes if the devs would like to try and "tweak" it a little closer to live.

Oh, and of course I know faction would make a difference, but it should have been constant, and it wasn't. And it certainly would not compensate for the difference on components. There may be another factor I may have forgotten, if anyone knows what it might be, please let me know. Edited September 7, 2011 by Dragoncove

[punk [BTL]]

Yep , Dragon back when there were beta testers it was noted when we did reviews of every sector/station .
It has been known for a long time and nothing has been done.
Is it a game breaker - No , is it annoying - Yes

Thanks for bringing it up again and doing your own comparisions


Alk

[kjeron]

Not sure how the non-manufacturable items or refined items are priced, however, all manufacurable items are priced directly based on the value of their components and ores.
A component costs 4/3's the total value of its ores.
Equipment costs 4/3's the total value of its components.
Manufacturing costs are all directly based on the items value, devices 1/4, core tech 1/3, weapons 1/3, ammo is similar but more affected by stack size.
I think this was done to insure nothing could be ripped for parts and sold at a profit back to the vendors.

What I dont understand is why a weapons sell price is 1/4 the price you can sell non-weapons for. It's better to rip weapons and sell them by parts because of it, even if you lose a comp.

[Overtkill]

The same goes for loot. I posted this in the mobs section... What players used to get for loot was a lot higher than in this incarnation. It wasn't unheard of for me in live to leave Varen's with 3-6 Mill in loot after soloing mobs there. Something should be done to correct pricing to realistic levels across the board IMO.

[Evermore [LDEV]]

Hmmm, well, when someone comes up with a solid plan to balance the economy-let us know.
If you take in all factors for the economy, it does not only pertain to loot items, or vender items.
The more you brainstorm this, the more likely it could lead to a solution.

I for one would like to read some of your ideas here, and as I said - it could actually help.

[ryleyra]

I may actually be wrong about Ore prices matching. I was doing some checking and found some oddities in the price of refined ores.

I suspect, though, that it's a simple case of there was no information to go on, and so it all had to be made up from scratch.

[Lot]

[quote name='Evermore' timestamp='1314641535' post='45352']
Hmmm, well, when someone comes up with a solid plan to balance the economy-let us know.
If you take in all factors for the economy, it does not only pertain to loot items, or vender items.
The more you brainstorm this, the more likely it could lead to a solution.

I for one would like to read some of your ideas here, and as I said - it could actually help.
[/quote]

Well making it harder and harder for players to earn credits doesn't actually help the economy -- you have to acknowledge that truth before the economy can be healed and eventually made in to a success. Poor players find it hard to pay for goods and services. Step one of any plan then would be to restore what vendors used to pay for loot. That's easy.

I do not worry about the rich players as they cannot offer free services indefinitely.

There are services that have a problem at the moment because the resource they provide is being bypassed. Level 9 components drop from the loot tables too frequently and have become a primary source for refined ores. In live, components dropped as loot were very rare and right now it is pretty easy to farm a 100 components -- easier than mining the ores.

Step two of the plan is fix the loot drops for components.

Pretty soon after that is done it will become quite apparent that the mining resource for level 9 ores is inadequate. At the moment nobody appears to pay any serious attention to the ore field problem. They will when it becomes the obvious bottleneck to the economy as the supply of melted ores from components dries up.

Step three to making the economy work will thus be eventually addressing the ore field problem. Tied up in this must be the removal of the free-for-all hulk fields and re-distributing hulks in to ore fields as they were in live.

The fourth stage would be to increase the capital within the economy i.e. open up the remaining sectors -- making more goods available for consumption.

Can it be that simple ... but as long as the truth that players need credits is ignored then there's no hope.

Edited August 30, 2011 by Lot

[ryleyra]

[quote name='Lot' timestamp='1314713676' post='45372']Can it be that simple ... but as long as the truth that players need credits is ignored then there's no hope.[/quote]

The rarity of high level ores has always been a problem, ever since live. A lot of the problem is due to the fact that a low level player is not restricted from "cherry picking" high level fields, outside of his reactor capacity, and the risk of encountering a high level guardian. He prospects more slowly than a high level miner, but he can still beat the high level miner to a stack of high level ore, and take all the time he needs while the asteroid is "locked". So my assumption is that high level ores are found in stacks of one or two, while low level ores are found in stacks of 5 or 10, for this reason.

If the availablity of ores at all levels were equal, there would not be a problem. And I'm talking about live. For all I know, attempts are being made to address this issue. I do understand that pop rocks can be mined now, that there is a chance to salvage the ores in them. So this increases the supply for those willing and able to take the greater risk.

One suggestion I saw on live was to have the ores you mine multiplied if you are high Prospect level. That is, you mine 1 unit of level 9 ore, you get 4-5 back. I posted a variation, where instead of getting more out of one unit if you are higher Prospect level, you have a chance of loss if you are lower Prospect. It comes down to the same thing, only the devs will need to stock the asteroids with larger stacks of ores at high level in the latter case.

Honestly, the transfer of money from high level players to new players is one purpose of an auction house. If new players are just gathering loot that they then vendor to earn money, then they are just creating a new generation of players that will eventually be high level players with lots of money. The idea is for money to be transferred around, not just at the highest levels, but at all levels. But that is another topic. Edited August 30, 2011 by Dragoncove

[Overtkill]

Maybe the best way to go since we do not have the amount of players as in live would be to restore the actual prices in loot, items, and ores. These shouldn't have been lowered in the first place. I used to hunt solo in VG with my JE when I needed cash, now its hardly worth anything short of tagging along with someone to Cooper or Antares.

As I see it now there are the mega rich and then the rest of us. Have you ever tried outfitting a JE without raid money? Not everyone goes to raids all the time, and not everyone can solo huge mobs. Please restore the prices to as they were in live.

Further, buffs as they stand should be fixed. In live, I remember hitting anyone with any activate buff I had whether I was grouped or not. Please try to take in account that there are not the same number of players there were in live. I used to like buffing the hunters that were near the risky areas I was mining.

Thanks for reading.

-Overt.

Edit: Additional...

Hulk fields have been sucking lately. The lvl 7 though 9 junk loot are currently worthless to vend. Landing struts, shield emitters, etc... Putting a higher price on these items would encourage players to finish off hulk fields so they would regenerate. I can tell that some do not respawn new hulks until the field is cleared. Another bad idea...! People cherry pick the good hulk fields, never bothering to finish them off since the stuff left is not worth anything. Make it worth the risk of mining these items, and people will empty them. Far better than coming up to a lvl 9 hulk with nothing in it but debris! It ticks me off to go out of my way to these fields to find them cherry picked and emptied of anything valuable.

[Terrell [BT]]

Agreed Overtkill, especially on the debris in hulks. Since Debris and Wreckage slag is L1 and L2, how about not having it on any hulks higher than L3? Instead replace it with level apropraite "junk" loot, as well as things that are desirable. Doesn't matter if it's 3 debris or 300 debris, to a Master, Magister, or Ranger it's still 0 Trade XP for vendoring it.

Also agree that not everyone goes to raids, while every class should have some usefulness in a raid, raids shouldn't be the only way for players to get equpment/recipes, especially for the non-warrior toons.

[rhobix]

[quote name='Overtkill' timestamp='1314812190' post='45406']
Edit: Additional...

Hulk fields have been sucking lately. The lvl 7 though 9 junk loot are currently worthless to vend. Landing struts, shield emitters, etc... Putting a higher price on these items would encourage players to finish off hulk fields so they would regenerate. I can tell that some do not respawn new hulks until the field is cleared. Another bad idea...! People cherry pick the good hulk fields, never bothering to finish them off since the stuff left is not worth anything. Make it worth the risk of mining these items, and people will empty them. Far better than coming up to a lvl 9 hulk with nothing in it but debris! It ticks me off to go out of my way to these fields to find them cherry picked and emptied of anything valuable.
[/quote]

I usually get vendor loot worth about a million credits from clearing a level 9 hulk field. That's excluding any manufacturables which I keep for future analyse. I think that's ok. I do agree however that it would have been nice if the debris and wreckage slag could be replaced by something level appropriate so you get explore XP for prospecting it as well.

Perhaps something like:
Lvl 4 High Grade Debris
Lvl 6 High Grade Wreckage Slag
Lvl 8 Research Grade Wreckage Slag

[Lot]

You still get the whatever XP it is (200?) from emptying the hulk no matter what it contains.

[Terrell [BT]]

[quote name='Lot' timestamp='1314868624' post='45470']
You still get the whatever XP it is (200?) from emptying the hulk no matter what it contains.
[/quote]

The XP you get for emptying an asteroid or hulk is Explore XP, explorers also need Trade XP, and we get that from selling or refining what we mine. It doesn't make sense that when we're mining things that are apropraite to our level, that we get no Trade XP for selling what we mine. I don't really care what the junk loot wreckage slag and debris is replaced with in higher level hulks, so long as it's apropraite to the level of hulk that I'm mining so when I sell it I can get some Trade XP.

[Lot]

[quote name='Terrell' timestamp='1314869871' post='45471']
The XP you get for emptying an asteroid or hulk is Explore XP, explorers also need Trade XP, and we get that from selling or refining what we mine. It doesn't make sense that when we're mining things that are apropraite to our level, that we get no Trade XP for selling what we mine. I don't really care what the junk loot wreckage slag and debris is replaced with in higher level hulks, so long as it's apropraite to the level of hulk that I'm mining so when I sell it I can get some Trade XP.
[/quote]

Same thing has been happening to loot from mob corpses. They're becoming filled with crap that is low enough level to be worth no trade XP. Sometimes you get items that are worth some trade XP though, same with asteroids and hulks.

All I'm noting here is some feeling of a sense of entitlement (around hulk fields).

Anyway, hulks were always meant to be a bonus if you found one in an ordinary asteroid field -- not the free for all, all you can eat, login right after restart feeding frenzy to get the best meal items -- broken feature they are now (hulk fields).

[rhobix]

[quote name='Lot' timestamp='1314868624' post='45470']
You still get the whatever XP it is (200?) from emptying the hulk no matter what it contains.
[/quote]
Yes, but the explore xp gained by clearing a hulk field is insignificant when compared to the explore xp gained by clearing a roid or gas field of the same size and level. In a gas or roid field, I would estimate that over half the xp comes from mining the ore itself, less than a quarter from the roid clear bonus and about a quarter from the field clear bonus.

[Terrell [BT]]

[quote name='Lot' timestamp='1314874285' post='45474']
Same thing has been happening to loot from mob corpses. They're becoming filled with crap that is low enough level to be worth no trade XP. Sometimes you get items that are worth some trade XP though, same with asteroids and hulks.

All I'm noting here is some feeling of a sense of entitlement (around hulk fields).

Anyway, hulks were always meant to be a bonus if you found one in an ordinary asteroid field -- not the free for all, all you can eat, login right after restart feeding frenzy to get the best meal items -- broken feature they are now (hulk fields).
[/quote]

That also needs to be fixed. Was killing Titans, near triple lattice CL41-46 with my JW a few days ago. Some of them dropped L3 crystals. That shouldn't be the case either.

When it comes to hulk fields, I'd be okay with the vast majority of hulks being occasional appearences in regular roid fields. I would also like for there to be a 2 or 3 high level hulk fields that appear in random, off the beaten path locations, with a long respawn timer. (they would not respawn in the same place, and you would have to look for them.) Don't know if that can be done. Would also be nice if there was plenty more ores for us explorers to mine.

If we as explorers are supposed to level doing what we're intended to do, there needs to be plenty of places for us to mine. Most of the stuff could be common, but when we look around, there should be some fields that are off the beaten path with better rewards.

Orefields should have mobs in them, in some cases it should be fairly easy to deal with, other places should be more dangerous, and the rewards should increase the harder a field is to find, or the more heavily defended said field is. Remember that we explorers are likely going in without warrior protection, particularily for those ones way out that we may not want to reveal the location of, so the orefield guardians should be a challenge, but it should be something a skilled explorer can handle.

[rhobix]

[quote name='Terrell' timestamp='1314876306' post='45476']
That also needs to be fixed. Was killing Titans, near triple lattice CL41-46 with my JW a few days ago. Some of them dropped L3 crystals. That shouldn't be the case either.
[/quote]

I actually think that's just as much a design flaw as a drop flaw. I don't think loot should be level-banded. It should give a certain amount of trade XP per credit. If your at a higher trade level, it should take more income to get the same amount of trade XP as someone with a lower trade level. If you manage to collect thousands of low level loot items worth the same amount of credits as a few high level items, it should give the same XP.

[ryleyra]

Honestly, I don't consider hulks to be "mining". Hulks were added so that miners would have a source of items that were usually gained from MOBs, because they have more difficulty in combat than the other classes. To that extent, what they find cannot be "refined", and thus they don't gain Trade XP for that. While it is fine to gain Explore XP, because it is an "exploration" activity, searching for and finding resources without combat, it's also find that the Trade XP would be less.

OTOH, the issue sounds like a global one for hulks and MOBs, and thus should be fixed globally. So everyone can make more Trade XP. I do agree that items found in a particular spawn should be of close to the same level, you should not find both level 9 and level 1 goods in the same asteroid/critter.

In fact, I'm pretty sure that I am seeing a variation in general from the level of the asteroid. On live I could be fairly certain that a level 4 asteroid contained level 4 ore, but I am seeing them with level 2 and 3 ore a lot more often, and I am seeing them with level 2 and 3 ore and no level 4, which I never saw on live. Edited September 1, 2011 by Dragoncove

[ryleyra]

I thought I would confirm that most of the Trade Routes that I have recorded on live are present here, and give the same profits. There are a few minor differences, and of course, a whole lot of new routes have been added. Not just the Progen and "circular" routes, but there seem to be more routes overall. In some cases, I even noticed items that originally came from one place have moved to another.

I am still testing other prices, I will probably check ore prices next. EDIT: As I corrected in my first post, ore prices aren't the same as live at all. They appear to be similar at the lower levels due to rounding errors, but once you get up to level 3 and 4 they obviously don't match at all any more. In fact, there are ores at level 3 that are cheaper than level 2, and vice versa. So I'm not sure the values were even taken from a site that had collected ore prices. Edited September 7, 2011 by Dragoncove

[Falstar [MOD]]

Let's get back to what Evermore said. He welcomed suggestions to fix things and I've seen one. The economy is complicated and includes a lot of aspects. What I've read the most is raise loot prices, lower sell prices - basically put more money in the economy. However, that does not fix the economy, it just makes more money to circulate.

I'll comment about a few things Lot mentioned - some things to consider:
If too much money is in the economy, slowing the entrance of credits is one way to combat that, making it more balanced.
-I believe that the rich, if the above was not implemented, could offer free services forever.
-You are exactly right - if you can rip ores from comps easier than finding a miner, why bother? If you love getting ores for builders and they are not seeking them, maybe you won't play your miner.

You need several things to work together to have a balanced economy.
Income comes from a few basic sources
-Ore/hulks
-loot
-raw credits
-Mission rewards
-Trade runs (ok not all levels)

Net credit loss covers:
-Hull Upgrades
-equipment/ammo etc
-Building/analyzing
-parts
-buying ores (a goal at least)

The difficulty of ease of the previous really determines how well the economy functions. Some have more impact than others. Hull upgrades for example cost, but are a one time expense, while building ammo is a constant expense. If you have too much money coming in, and the cost or number of ways to spend it is not close, you'll gain more and more money and essentially you can do it all as much as you want. If you have too many ways to spend money or it is too costly, you have a poor player base that spends time mining/killing to get credits to continue their leveling.

A systematic examination of desired results should probably be taken. Also keep in mind that the actual number of credits does not matter. We could have an economy where a million credits is rare and only a few people have it. On the other hand that would mean that equipment would be very cheap in numerical value.

So, bear with me... let me examine what I've laid out.

Income: Ores & hulks.
As this is about a functioning economy, the exp reward is irrelevant, but more for balancing leveling. Current ore refining that I've looked into so far in most cases yields net profit. As far as I'm aware all ore yields profit in raw form. No issue unless you address it in the context of a market demand. You will be selling to vendors, as most builders are not looking for ores to buy. There are exceptions of course, but for the most part I believe that is true. See (credit loss) for more.

Loot:
All loot sold yields credits. How much drops and how much it sells for determines how fast the economy gains credits. Currently loot may have issues with being too plentiful yielding both credits & comps/ores to use for building. The value of the loot along with the composition DO play an important role here.

Raw Credits
Mostly ignored, nearly all kills reward you with raw credits, and typically insignificant in regards to loot. Still, this could be an easy and fast way to add credits to the economy if needed.

Mission Rewards
Not a lot to worry about here, but another way to control credits for those who do them. Also a possible easy way to get lots of credits if not configured correctly.

Trade Runs
A good way for lower levels to earn income. Higher level trade goods have been requested and would be nice. Not imbalanced as far as I know.

As far as spending goes:

Hull Upgrades:
A one time expense that everyone needs to go through. The main impact this has is on lower levels where credits are more likely to be tight. I however, am not aware of anyone not upgrading their hull because they didn't have enough credits.

Equipment/ammo etc:
One of the more complicated aspects. If you have lots of equipment dropping, players may not need to buy much. Have it scarce and they'll be visiting the vendor (or player) more. Vendor price affects it some - if they price it too high players may have a hard time buying it, which may spur more people to look on market. If it is too low, they'll just buy it from the vendor(assuming it is available and not taking quality into account)

Building/analyzing
I suppose this should be an income and expense. As you build things it costs you money to buy the comps and actually build the thing. However, hopefully if you are full time builder, you can obtain these parts and make a profit building for people. As it is now a lot of builders do it for free. Is it because they don't need the money or because it is now expected builds are to be free? It should also be noted that this is ONLY an expense when no players are involved. You can't exactly build an item and sell it to a vendor for a profit.

Comps
This could technically go under building, as it is similar. You will (hopefully) need to buy ore from a miner to make your comps. However many comps are sold at vendors. One possible way to increase ore demand is to reduce the number of comps at vendors. This of course would be unpopular, and more realistic with a larger server population. Price of comps at vendors of course also contributes to what the builder will charge (theoretically).

Buying ores
This aspect is unique as it is completely controlled by the players. If you can easily and quickly get ores from a comp, you'll do it because it's easier than trying to find a miner to mine them, wait, and then buy them. Like comps, the demand for raw ores could be controlled by not only the needs of various recipes, but the availability of comps to rip from.

All of the above should also be considered under the light of people who multibox. The economy suffers if a builder switches to their miner to get the ore they need, to build the items they need instead of interacting with another player to provide the ores. If everyone is able to get everything they need themselves, I think an economy will be hard to sustain.

Finally server population itself is an issue. Some multi box because they can't find the right race/profession they need.

The main complaints I have seen are: Many builders build for free & buying ore on market is a rarity. I would suppose (and could be wrong) that the building for free is due to the fact that builders do not need money to cover their building expenses. What should be figured out is why? Do they hunt or raid if they need cash and prefer to give away builds? Would they charge if they had less money? Do they just have tons of credits? Even taking higher level players out of it, mid range players seem to have a lot of cash too. Why? Do they get their builds for free, thus saving money, or do they get a very high return doing a particular income activity?

As far as ore goes, it may come down to availability of comps to rip from along with the other items discussed. Do they rip comps because it's fast and easy? Do not enough things call for ore to be used so there isn't enough demand? Is ore too plentiful? (I doubt that, but a question to ask)

Finally (wow, you read this far!?) changing any of this in regards to price or availability will affect the economy. Determine what you want to FIX to determine what to change? If you think the economy isn't working because no ore is available in the first place (where in a real economy it would just be really pricey) maybe it is that there is actually little demand for it. Explore that. Why? If you think loot is not giving enough credits - why? What problems have you encountered that require you to have more credits than you are currently getting?

The question now is what do you think needs fixing with our economy? Be general - what part of the economy is broken in your eyes? What transactions are not happening. What isn't getting bought or sold and why?

Hopefully that can spur some conversation and discussion.

[Lot]

Dakynos we weren't asking to raise loot prices -- we were asking for them to be restored to what they were.

Either last content update or one before that it became apparent that someone on the staff was tampering around with what vendors paid for loot. Will (Kjero) posted about loot being worth more if dismantled into components and the components sold to the vendor. That was an illustration of the work that has already begun by staff attempting to starve the economy of credits.

There are formulas from live that were in place in the emulator that defined the ratio between item value and what a vendor paid. The ratios were the same as live until they were changed in a recent content update. And values are the same as live. We're heading into an "economy" where players earn less credits compared with live.

Loot tables have been changed and most of the time mobs spit out low level junk loot.

Builders building for free is probably a misconception. Most times they actually get paid a tip that covers manufacture cost. Buyers also provide the components usually so builders are actually making profits. Within a guild is the only time that neither "buyer" or "seller" exchange any credits as a good will gesture and tradition.

If we define what players can earn per hour from mobs or from mining then we have to think live had it pretty much right and everyone in live was pretty much happy. I remember auctions for looted items where the items sold for 100's of millions of credits. The point being that players build up funds anyway against whatever controls are in place.

Some players got rich instantly in live e.g. the first to loot and print a Cygnus 9 made 100s of millions.

An economy is so much more than controlling credits in and credits out like a balance sheet.

[kjeron]

[quote name='Lot' timestamp='1315540050' post='45924']
Dakynos we weren't asking to raise loot prices -- we were asking for them to be restored to what they were.

Either last content update or one before that it became apparent that someone on the staff was tampering around with what vendors paid for loot. Will (Kjero) posted about loot being worth more if dismantled into components and the components sold to the vendor. That was an illustration of the work that has already begun by staff attempting to starve the economy of credits.

[/quote]

Some clarificatioin is necessary here.
Only, and all, weapons work like this. The vendor will buy weapons at 1/4 the value compared to if it were a device/reactor/engine/shield, which makes ripping weapons and selling the components more profitable, if enough successfully rip. However, they have been selling at this rate for all of ST4, and IIRC, ST3 as well. It is not something new.

[ryleyra]

I don't know what the value of loot was on live, since I don't have any record of that. But components, weapons and systems, when bought from the vendors, is a money sink. If all of those systems are more expensive than on live, then it is harder for players to buy those items than it was on live. This will either require players to go to the Market channel more for crafted weapons (which will also cost more to manufacture than on live, since the component costs are higher) or to use only looted items. (Either looted themselves or bought from the Market, which would compete with the builders trying to buy looted items for prints)

If the costs are all (or mostly) higher than live, then the loot which is sold for credits into the system should also sell for more. There isn't anything wrong with this, but the system should remain in balance. For instance, the cost of a component was usually very close to the cost of the ores which made it up. I am not sure this is still the case.

The cost of weapons on live might have been less than the cost of equipment. I seem to note that starting at about level 3, manufacturing costs for equipment became higher than weapons. However, weapons used different types of components than equipment, and weapon components could have been priced lower. Ammo components were definately priced lower than equipment components, and this is still true. They are also made from raw ores instead of refined, so the manufacturing costs are lower as well.

[Overtkill]

I pretty much agree with the others Dakynos. The current prices are too low across the board for loot and ores. They should be put back to what they were in live or better. You have to take into account that there aren't as many players as there were in live, and its real tough to eek out enough credits after hours of hunting, or mining.

Lot I think hit it on the head with his explanation, and the clarifications made by the others are valid too. Right now you have about 2 classes of player in the game... The super rich and then the rest of us that eek out what we can from what is available.

We spent a couple of hours in VG today for example as a hunting party of 3... The organic loot used to be worth a hell of a lot more then. All we are suggesting is that they be put back to what they were then, or near that level.

I also wish the ore values be restored too, and more hulk fields be put in that spawn like normal fields instead of the field clearing requirement BS we've been dealing with. As it is now, I am real luck to find anything that that hasn't been cherry picked to death in both ores and hulks. I have a sneaking feeling that many high level miners are getting there, finding the choice items, and vending for creds because these items are worth a hell of a lot more than the junk shield emitters and other junk loot. I am not saying everyone is doing this as there are many great giving people who are giving these items away for printing by others, but you always have the feeling that there are simply vending, and are not wanting to empty hulks because the junk shield emitters, landing struts, and other junk are worthless, and they are level 8 items. Same goes for organic loot... These should be restored to make them more valuable to the rest of us.

I see the game economy as a whole is shot right now. Bringing value back to these items will put an influx of credits in for everyone and make things a heck of a lot more enjoyable as a player. In the end, that is all that matters is we enjoy the experience in game, and sapping the value of stuff only serves to take away from that.

Thanks for reading....

-Overt.

[Falstar [MOD]]

I believe Dragoncove is correct, it is all about balance. The various prices and values may be different from live, but as long as we can achieve a "balanced economy" it won't matter much if they are the same or not. The value of 1 credit is determined by how much it can buy (or not buy), not the number 1 itself.

Lot is also correct, simply changing costs of equipment or value of loot is not enough to get an economy going. That being said, any change in overall loot value ( as a whole, not individual items) will affect the economy, and just changing that aspect can't be done without considering other aspects.

I also believe that the emulator currently is fundamentally different from live, so even if we were to somehow make sure all values (loot,ore eq) are on par with live, I seriously doubt our economy would function as live did. What would it take to get the emulator as it is currently to have a well functioning economy with all its details and quirks?

{edit}
I will say that I am not aware of a concerted effort or anything to lower values. I will see if any Dev has insights or comments. I certainly agree that a low number of players does make it hard for an economy, much less to group. And some other related economy posts [url="https://forum.enb-emulator.com/index.php?/topic/5543-economy-balance-p-wipe/page__p__45472__hl__p-wipe__fromsearch__1#entry45472"]here[/url]. Edited September 10, 2011 by Dakynos
update after reading Overkill's post