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Job Re-Spawn time


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Tien-
Would it be too stressfull on the server to up the amount of Jobs at each Terminal or Decrease the re-spawn on the jobs?
I just started doing jobs and its very clear to me and everyone else who standing at the Job Terminal with me that there just dont seem to be enough jobs to go around. 2-4 people end up in a mouse clicking war over the 4-5 jobs that pop up every 4-5 mins.


-WT
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Such as it was the same in Live. Job Terminals were competitive and even on a larger scale than we have to deal with here with the vastly smaller numbers on the EMU vs Live.

There are several other ways to grind and level too other than waiting on Jobs. Get out and shoot something, collect loot and trade for XP the old fashioned way, would be amazed at how much you could learn whats out in the galaxy during those L1-149 vs the straight rush to 150 ;)
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as several of us were discussing in new player chat last night there was a 5 job mission limit in live with a 15 minute timer for most of the game between you being able to get more than 2, so you'd get your 2 jobs then by clicking for more be able to watch the second by second timer before you could get another 2. and it did count the seconds between when you could get your second job and your fourth. so that most people ran with just 4 at a time because they didn't want to wait another 15 minutes for 1 more job. toward the end of live some said they believed the timer was reduced to 5 minutes but then i quit playing shortly after sunset announce and hadn't jobbed in months so that may well have been the case. there was always competition at the terminals but it was for fewer jobs at a time, and the jobs would update at a rate that made that tollerable. as the game sits presently i don't think we need a fast forward button for leveling like infinite jobs, rather focus your time leveling on exploring the content that is ever changing.
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one of the things we were talking about before was being able to create your own 'jobs', if you needed something you can place a bounty on the terminals for it. However we'd have to limit the jobs/hour created rates otherwise it's a whole world of abuse. I'm told it worked out quite well on other MMO's it was tried on.

Could be another credit sink too maybe? Have a logarithmic scale of credits sinked to mission XP award at completion. And obviously you wouldn't be able to do your own missions!
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More jobs would be nice, but so would more content. Leveling explore, for Traders & Warriors can be a big pain if they're not into doing tours. More NPCs with quests that award explore XP, and faction (in small amounts), as part of the reward, on the way up will probably ease the congestion at the job terminal a little. The big advantages for the job terminals is access to Explore XP, and faction.

In live Ketsugo's Observation Outpost had missions, the same ones we have in the emulator, first against mobs near the N7 nav in Yokan, then missions to kill red spindles (which were somewhat energy resistant in Live) followed by missions to kill Zenshai and bring back their fragments (3 fragments per mission). The Zenshai mission was repeatable until the player reached CL20, then he had to move on. It also gave Shinwa faction as a reward in addition to XP.

More content along those lines in varying parts of the galaxy will make leveling up more pleasurable. There could be more NPCs like those at various parts of the galaxy, complete with level requirements, to do such quests that award some CXP, EXP, and a little faction.
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Just to refresh memories on how it was live:
For the first yr. of the game, jobs was a grab 5 and run. However, not very often would 5 jobs to same locale spawn at a time..so if you wanted to fill you had to wait a 15 minute refresh rate. Then they started tweeking the terminals (after much, MUCH player complaint on the issue.)

The next itiration of jobs: a faster refresh rate starting at 10 minutes, they then tried to lower that time frame, but hit some wall on server load and timer, causing timer start at 5 min. refresh, then getting longer over time. They had to reset the server to get the 5 min. back. It took another terminal overhaul to find the bugs and lock down the 5 min refresh.

After much feed back and firestorm of complaints from players, they started on the new and improved (depended on you're view :)) job terminal. Biggest complaint? Job ninjas. Those with slower connections would get ninja'ed out of jobs due to refresh rates etc. Also it was taking unnessary resources from game when people had to keep jumping into/outof terminal to refresh job listings.

Solution: 5 job limit, but 2 job grab and a 4 minute cool down before you could grab another. This let others into the potential job pick and helped those with slower connections get in ( remember this was all based on a 56k dial-up tech). The job listing also had a auto refresh without jumping in/out of terminal (thus less resource demands.) they also experimented with some algorythm that set the number of jobs spawn by player population, it was hit and miss at best.

The final itiration of terminals: came in game only a month before announcement of sunset (had great potential..but many peeps quit, so never got the stress testing it should). 2 minute cool down, 5 minute respawn, auto refresh, and...SEARCH ABILITY. All up to this time all terminals offered lower lvl jobs, and more remote terminals offered the higher lvl jobs. VT and Fenris being the only offering the highest lvl jobs (but still having mid-range.)

Search ability: Up to this time all the jobs were..JOBS. You got experience (to job type), cash (yes a paycheck..can you imagine?), and faction (you're boss took notice of a hard worker and started to actually LIKE you :)). You could set the terminal to list jobs to put the highest lvl (or lowest) up in order, or cash reward , or faction alphabetically etc. when you grabbed a job it auto refreshed it out and removed it from you're and others list (there was still a second or so before others saw it removed, so you could get ninja'ed still). You could also list by destination (this choice unfortunately didn't exclude by lvl, so all to say, ODC would be listed but not in order of lvl. so if you was clicking fast you could grab a L150 job and a L105 to same destination by mistake.

If you had a JE WHing and a fast engine you could make the run and return in 4-5 minutes, so many didn't indeed wait for the cool down to grab a 5th..especially if the terminal was crowded..after all they may miss the 5th and have to wait another 5 minute for respawn. This was especially if folks was jobbing in groups..many JE offered taxi services to wefts, and if you was waiting for the 5th you may be holding up others in group.
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@ Mattsacre,

Exactly Matt, well said. That is how I remember job terminals most. I started EnB with the free 10 day trial that was in the PC Gamer magazine. I was addicted by the 4th day. Before the 8th day, I found a way for my buddy to give it a try. I think it took him almost the full 10 days before he was addicted. We played for several months, using the monthly purchase for game time. then a week before they announced sunset, my buddy bought the 6 month subscription. when they announced sunset, he was so pissed that he stopped playing. By that time, I had gotten a 2nd account and was playing the 2 accounts on my computer. I was able to get a laptop at that time and started a toon on his account. I spent weeks and weeks doing trade runs in VT and AP, getting those guys to where they were close enough with my TT to get credit if we went hunting. With a month or two left before sunset, I harassed my buddy enough about showing EA how upset he was by not playing the game he had paid good money for, that he finally gave in and started playing. At that point, my JE became his slave as we spent 2 weeks running trade from VT to N7 I think, with the JE sitting and WHing both ways. Xtremeforcetaxi became an almost permanent fixture at the weft. With some of the missions and the 5 minute timer, we could take only 2 missions and complete the run in time to catch the refresh... Man it almost killed my marriage.. boy I sure would have missed her! :)
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I think we should not re-introduce timers to the job terminals, IMO it will make the camping problem worse by requiring players to spend longer time at the job terminals to accomplish their tasks. In most cases people aren't using the same computers they were using in 2002, they may also have better connections than they did back then. I'd rather see the amount of jobs refreshed be larger, or the frequency of refreshes be a little higher. The limit of 6 jobs in one's mission log at one time, in my opinion, is a reasonable limit.


Allowing the terminals to have more than one level of job per terminal may also spread around the users. Say allow 2 or 3 levels of jobs at all terminals, which would give people alternatives to which station to go to get their required level of jobs.

You could also have some jobs where you have to carry more than one item per job, which would depending on what you had to carry put some limits on what you can do at once, based on the size of your cargo hold. Grant Terrans & Traders would have a bit of an advantage there.
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Keep in mind that the faster they refresh the less they can be worth overall. Otherwise, it leads to a quick (if boring) way to level. All options in the long run need to be as equal as possible. In any case we've only talked about it a bit, we will have more discussions on it before we do anything incredibly sweeping in terms of change.
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Another thing that was in live, but it seemed like not many people knew about, was loot that gave Exploration exp. There were Brawns that were well off the beaten path that dropped horns and would give awesome exploration exp when you sold it. I have found the Brawns in EMU, but they are not as abundant and the drops don't give exploration exp. This could be another thing to add in order to limit the competition at terminals, and encourage people to go off the beaten path to find more interesting things to kill.
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Thanks for the insight everyone. I was around during live but did not do jobs and really dont remember too much in the way of rules/timers etc.. since I was not able to enjoy the game very long before it shut down. That beeing said I did not realize how much nicer the current setup is compared to live.

Thanks again,
-WT
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[quote name='Kyp' timestamp='1305237565' post='40624']
Keep in mind that the faster they refresh the less they can be worth overall. Otherwise, it leads to a quick (if boring) way to level. All options in the long run need to be as equal as possible. In any case we've only talked about it a bit, we will have more discussions on it before we do anything incredibly sweeping in terms of change.
[/quote]

Why would faster or larger refreshes mean that we would have to have smaller XP for the jobs? There would still be the limit of 6 jobs per person at once. People who took 6 jobs would still take time to complete them. The only thing it does reduce is the amount of time players spend doing nothing while waiting for the terminal to refresh. If faster refreshes are a problem, how about bigger refreshes for the people who are there? More jobs per refresh to go around for those who are waiting for jobs.
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[quote name='Steele208' timestamp='1305238354' post='40626']
Another thing that was in live, but it seemed like not many people knew about, was loot that gave Exploration exp. There were Brawns that were well off the beaten path that dropped horns and would give awesome exploration exp when you sold it. I have found the Brawns in EMU, but they are not as abundant and the drops don't give exploration exp. This could be another thing to add in order to limit the competition at terminals, and encourage people to go off the beaten path to find more interesting things to kill.
[/quote]

I like the sound of that ... I'll add the ability to do this to the editing tools and server.

well remembered.
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[quote name='WhiteTrash' timestamp='1305165250' post='40552']
Tien-
Would it be too stressfull on the server to up the amount of Jobs at each Terminal or Decrease the re-spawn on the jobs?
I just started doing jobs and its very clear to me and everyone else who standing at the Job Terminal with me that there just dont seem to be enough jobs to go around. 2-4 people end up in a mouse clicking war over the 4-5 jobs that pop up every 4-5 mins.


-WT
[/quote]
But the click wars are the most fun part of jobs!
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It controls the amount of experience per hour, Terrell. Which in turn directly influences how quick you level, obviously. If you can level faster than anything else doing jobs, what do you think's going to happen at the job terminal? :)

Here's what comes to my mind:

Job Terminal \/

[img]http://mnnnews.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/ap0809150155821.jpg[/img]
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[quote name='Kyp' timestamp='1305275532' post='40660']
It controls the amount of experience per hour, Terrell. Which in turn directly influences how quick you level, obviously. If you can level faster than anything else doing jobs, what do you think's going to happen at the job terminal? :)
[/quote]
I didn't spend too much time doing jobs in live, but as far as I can remember, most of the time was spent doing the jobs, not waiting for the terminals to refresh. I don't remember there being much competition for jobs, but that might have been because I live in europe and or prime times used to be a bit less busy than in the US if memory serves mer right.
I'm all for lowering XP and increasing the amount of jobs. It helps even out the rate at which you can level at different times of day...

I haven't done more than one round of jobs in the EMU though, since I didn't think the reward was good enough. At the level I'm at, it feels like I get more XP from traderuns, tours and prospecting....
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I don't think that would happen as a lot of people don't do jobs because they think they are boring... With that said I have always used jobs to level up my explore and trade doing explore jobs, and from what I have seen you already cut the amount of xp given considerably,and you reduced the number of jobs one can do to 6.
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[quote name='Knix' timestamp='1305282263' post='40664']
I didn't spend too much time doing jobs in live, but as far as I can remember, most of the time was spent doing the jobs, not waiting for the terminals to refresh. I don't remember there being much competition for jobs, but that might have been because I live in europe and or prime times used to be a bit less busy than in the US if memory serves mer right.
I'm all for lowering XP and increasing the amount of jobs. It helps even out the rate at which you can level at different times of day...

I haven't done more than one round of jobs in the EMU though, since I didn't think the reward was good enough. At the level I'm at, it feels like I get more XP from traderuns, tours and prospecting....
[/quote]

The combo of your location and playing pattern must have created a real sweet spot for you with regard to Jobs, then. I can assure you that over here in the States, during Live, one needed Quake-like clickyness to try and get Jobs from the term. It was pretty common to watch the jobs list update and then be picked clean in seconds like an amazon deer that had wandered into a piranha infested river. If the moment of refresh was one that the player had decided to squander on, say, typing a message into chat then that player was doomed to wait, jobless, for the next refresh.
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[quote name='Jarod' timestamp='1305304001' post='40670']
The combo of your location and playing pattern must have created a real sweet spot for you with regard to Jobs, then. I can assure you that over here in the States, during Live, one needed Quake-like clickyness to try and get Jobs from the term. It was pretty common to watch the jobs list update and then be picked clean in seconds like an amazon deer that had wandered into a piranha infested river. If the moment of refresh was one that the player had decided to squander on, say, typing a message into chat then that player was doomed to wait, jobless, for the next refresh.
[/quote]

Agreed, this was especially true for places like Aragoth Station, w/r/t the L100 Jobs that were there. They were especially convienent if you had a JE on hand. Adding multiple levels to the various job terminals may spread the load some, but there will be some terminals that are significantly better than others given their locations and/or the locations of their destinations.
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[quote name='HellHas' timestamp='1305282680' post='40665']
I don't think that would happen as a lot of people don't do jobs because they think they are boring...
[/quote]

Hehe, if only we could rely on that. Unfortunately, player psychology shows a disturbing tendency to put up with something that's boring in order to level faster in many many cases. Especially with those who are "min-maxxers" and are trying to get the most experience in the least amount of time.
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[quote name='Kyp' timestamp='1305314106' post='40674']
Hehe, if only we could rely on that. Unfortunately, player psychology shows a disturbing tendency to put up with something that's boring in order to level faster in many many cases. Especially with those who are "min-maxxers" and are trying to get the most experience in the least amount of time.
[/quote]

In some cases, depending on player's intent for a particular toon, simply getting that toon to TL or EL 45 as quickly as possible this makes sense. (dedicated taxi/builder)

For toons that aren't meant to be used that way, more content does equal more fun.
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Not disagreeing with that Terrell, but many players WILL nonetheless put up with a boring activity if they can level faster. Many people who play these kind of games figure they can go through the content as a higher level anyway so they won't miss out. Sometimes they're right, sometimes they're not but still they do it. :)
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[quote name='Steele208' timestamp='1305238354' post='40626']
Another thing that was in live, but it seemed like not many people knew about, was loot that gave Exploration exp. There were Brawns that were well off the beaten path that dropped horns and would give awesome exploration exp when you sold it. I have found the Brawns in EMU, but they are not as abundant and the drops don't give exploration exp. This could be another thing to add in order to limit the competition at terminals, and encourage people to go off the beaten path to find more interesting things to kill.
[/quote]


Ah yes, the brawn spawns in rag. The guy in main lobby of TF wanted brawn horns or something as trophy proof of slaying them, a cleaning the space lanes. It was argued to be an exploit, since if you cashed in the horns without exiting convo tree after ea. you didnt get additional explore xp. It was never ruled a official exploit and they never removed or repaired it, so those in the know would do it.

This in itself however had its own "job term timer" since the brawns needed spore mothers present to spawn and others had a mission line that depended on killing spore mothers for THEY'RE drops. Asplayers killed the sporemothers they limited brawns available hehe. Ah the chat flames that would ensue! "Don't kill the sporemothers you $%$%&^" , "well $&$^&^& you I need them for my mission" etc.

Add in that the same spot had rare ore/gas and freespacers that dropped semi-rare loot that was desired, (think it was pitbull beams and harrier engines if I remember right) and you can imagine that garnering explore xp via that route might be slow at times ;)
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  • 4 weeks later...
[quote name='Terrell' timestamp='1305246653' post='40642']
Why would faster or larger refreshes mean that we would have to have smaller XP for the jobs? There would still be the limit of 6 jobs per person at once. People who took 6 jobs would still take time to complete them. The only thing it does reduce is the amount of time players spend doing nothing while waiting for the terminal to refresh. If faster refreshes are a problem, how about bigger refreshes for the people who are there? More jobs per refresh to go around for those who are waiting for jobs.
[/quote]
Supply and demand? It makes sense
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