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Foul and Offensive Lauguauge


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[quote name='Strayslayer' timestamp='1302722102' post='39039']
Read the code of conduct/ rules and regulations and pay close attention to page 8 rules 2 and 5. Do you have nothing better to do than harass the staff about enforcing the rules that you agree to everytime you log in?
[/quote]


[size="3"][font="Calibri"]I’m not sure quoting EA's EULA is any good, if you read other #s in it we are all pretty much violating it. [/font][/size]

[size="3"][font="Calibri"]Anyway when one speaks a cuss word slipping out is ALMOST <- note Almost excusable. But really when typing there is no excuse I can think of for typing a cuss word. Even for maximum effect. One has to think about it, if the person cussing is a one finger typist they are hunting and pecking out the letters. You sort of have to think that the person knows exactly what he/she did and needs a reminder that it is not acceptable here.

Caps seem to do more in the long run to express emotion than the use of 4 letter words.

Oh, and the free speech argument holds no water here, as it is a private server and the rules can be as restrictive or loose as they want.

I would suggest that the Devs write their own Eula to be displayed in the launcher. [/font][/size] Edited by Mimir
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[quote name='Strayslayer' timestamp='1303497676' post='39627']
This is what I was quoting.
[url="https://forum.enb-emulator.com/index.php?/forum-4/announcement-5-net-7-entertainment-earth-beyond-emulator-code-of-conduct-rules-regulations/"]https://forum.enb-emu...es-regulations/[/url]

Not the EA eula
[/quote]

Well OK then :)
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[quote name='Mimir' timestamp='1303488583' post='39622']
[size="3"][font="Calibri"]I’m not sure quoting EA's EULA is any good, if you read other #s in it we are all pretty much violating it. [/font][/size]

[size="3"][font="Calibri"]Anyway when one speaks a cuss word slipping out is ALMOST <- note Almost excusable. But really when typing there is no excuse I can think of for typing a cuss word. Even for maximum effect. One has to think about it, if the person cussing is a one finger typist they are hunting and pecking out the letters. You sort of have to think that the person knows exactly what he/she did and needs a reminder that it is not acceptable here.

Caps seem to do more in the long run to express emotion than the use of 4 letter words.

Oh, and the free speech argument holds no water here, as it is a private server and the rules can be as restrictive or loose as they want.

I would suggest that the Devs write their own Eula to be displayed in the launcher. [/font][/size]
[/quote]

Your premise is flawed. Maybe that is how you do things but I touch type at about 60 wpm and don't even think sometimes about typing a cuss word. IMO if it isn't directed in an offensive manner towards someone it isn't that big of a deal. If it really offends you that bad when it isn't someone directly insulting you then you really need to thicken your skin up. I don't see how you go day to day IRL interacting with people.
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I will go ahead and lay out a bit of additional stuff here.

Why not just have an optional word filter on the chat? I doubt it is hard to do and those that don't care can have it off and those whose delicate sensibilities are wrecked by these terrible four letter words can be protected from such filth. Then if someone is deliberatly going around the word filter you can ban hammer them. Then everyone wins \o/. Well, except the guy who got ban hammered, but that is his problem.
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[quote name='Kumquat' timestamp='1303795561' post='39761']
Your premise is flawed. Maybe that is how you do things but I touch type at about 60 wpm and don't even think sometimes about typing a cuss word. IMO if it isn't directed in an offensive manner towards someone it isn't that big of a deal. If it really offends you that bad when it isn't someone directly insulting you then you really need to thicken your skin up. I don't see how you go day to day IRL interacting with people.
[/quote]

So let me get this straight.... because you type at over 60 wpm you have the right to cuss like a sea cap'n? I think your logic is flawed. You are saying that because you have to interject every other word you speak/type and you do it >>>>FAssssssssssssT>>>> we all should just get over it? Get a thick skin? I think you missed the point of my message, so here it is in a nut shell, …

1. this is NOT an open non moderated public server in the US of A, free speech does not apply

2. this IS a private game server in Germany

3. cussing is not allowed

4. get over yourself as no one really wants to see you cuss >>>>FassssssssssT>>>>>
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Please don't use any language considered foul or offensive on the public channels at all.

Just use a bit of discretion and uphold the culture E&B generally had and has - on the public channels it's people helping each other, asking questions, selling stuff and a bit of jokey banter. If you feel some colour coming on do it somewhere away from the public channels.

My feeling on this is if you want to swear and your guild or private channel members are adult and no-one minds it, you can swear to your heart's content on those channels if that's your collective thing.

If it's a Guild issue the leaders can use their discretion whether you're actually being offensive to someone or just expressing frustration. They're all reasonable people really; if you don't think they are, join a different guild.

You can create a private channel with like minded people and swear on that. Just don't be offensive *at* people, like calling someone something offensive. I fully understand using colourful language to express frustration and to just add a bit of dynamics to a sentence, that's completely different.

I really don't want for us to have to add a chat filter - I feel we will have 'lost' something if we do.
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[quote name='Strayslayer' timestamp='1303812278' post='39771']
Regardless of how fast I type. My thought is still faster. If you only think at 60 ish wpm, I feel for you.
[/quote]


I think it strange that you turned this on me??? This was a discussion on to cuss or not cuss in public channels. If you feel the need to make this personal I will be more than happy to take it up with you via PMs. Don’t swear in public channels. Not a terribly restrictive request, really! Don’t you agree? And I feel sorry for you that because you type fast you have the right to “slip” and cuss in public chat channels. The reason I quoted “slip” is if you type so fast that you really don’t know what you type….proof it before hitting the Enter key. Well unless you have some disorder such as Tourette syndrome, but then again…PROOF before hitting ENTER. Edited by Mimir
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[quote name='Mimir' timestamp='1303810071' post='39769']
So let me get this straight.... because you type at over 60 wpm you have the right to cuss like a sea cap'n? I think your logic is flawed. You are saying that because you have to interject every other word you speak/type and you do it >>>>FAssssssssssssT>>>> we all should just get over it? Get a thick skin? I think you missed the point of my message, so here it is in a nut shell, …

1. this is NOT an open non moderated public server in the US of A, free speech does not apply

2. this IS a private game server in Germany

3. cussing is not allowed

4. get over yourself as no one really wants to see you cuss >>>>FassssssssssT>>>>>
[/quote]

I don't need you to white knight for me. I can fight my own battles. My point is some of us don't hold the same values that you do. I come from an enviroment where cussing means nothing. Sometimes, especially if I am tired, my brain check doesn't catch stuff like that. I never said it was acceptable to just spam cuss words. At the same time I don't think we need be so puritanical that someone typing the occasional cuss word, especially when not in an offensive manner, needs to be a huge deal. And yes a freedom of speech argument is flawed which is why I did not bring that up so don't throw that at me. I am getting my PhD in Political Science so I do know law fairly well heh. My point is not to make a legal argument but an argument appealed to reason that would allow leniency with the EULA. Surely you can see my point without having to go with some straw man argument.
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Does anyone else find it funny that a thread about not using offensive language had turned into such an angry argument?

People aren't going to get banned for slips of the [s]tongue[/s] keyboard. This is why we have chat logs and GMs. If we wanted anyone who dropped the F-bomb to be insta-banned, we'd just code that into the server. When offensive behavior is reported, it will be investigated and a judgement call will be made by a GM, given the whole context of the situation, as to whether or not punishment is warranted.

To code a chat filter into the server is, in my opinion, a waste of time, would reflect poorly on the maturity and dignity of the community, and would resurrect something I hated about the original game.
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[quote name='C Del' timestamp='1303838790' post='39788']
Does anyone else find it funny that a thread about not using offensive language had turned into such an angry argument?

People aren't going to get banned for slips of the [s]tongue[/s] keyboard. This is why we have chat logs and GMs. If we wanted anyone who dropped the F-bomb to be insta-banned, we'd just code that into the server. When offensive behavior is reported, it will be investigated and a judgement call will be made by a GM, given the whole context of the situation, as to whether or not punishment is warranted.

To code a chat filter into the server is, in my opinion, a waste of time, would reflect poorly on the maturity and dignity of the community, and would resurrect something I hated about the original game.
[/quote]

So what would be wrong with an optional chat filter? That way people can turn it on or off to suit their needs. If it has to be one way or the other I of course prefer unfiltered but I don't see having a choice being so bad.
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[quote name='Kumquat' timestamp='1303837708' post='39786']
I don't need you to white knight for me. I can fight my own battles. My point is some of us don't hold the same values that you do. I come from an enviroment where cussing means nothing. Sometimes, especially if I am tired, my brain check doesn't catch stuff like that. I never said it was acceptable to just spam cuss words. At the same time I don't think we need be so puritanical that someone typing the occasional cuss word, especially when not in an offensive manner, needs to be a huge deal. And yes a freedom of speech argument is flawed which is why I did not bring that up so don't throw that at me. I am getting my PhD in Political Science so I do know law fairly well heh. My point is not to make a legal argument but an argument appealed to reason that would allow leniency with the EULA. Surely you can see my point without having to go with some straw man argument.
[/quote]


I thought it was directed at me... so carry on, I was not and will not, ever... never... ever, try to help anyone on these boards.... I have learned my leason long ago.
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[quote name='Mimir' timestamp='1303840464' post='39790']
I thought it was directed at me... so carry on, I was not and will not, ever... never... ever, try to help anyone on these boards.... I have learned my leason long ago.
[/quote]

Story time for me?
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I don't see how this helps emulator come closer to a "live" situation.

BOTTOM line is average gamer when enb was live was 13+ I.E. making all of us grown ups.Lets act like it...not every single slip of a cuss word is bad but, a blaten disregard for others views on such language is stupid.Lets just leave it as we are all adults here wheither you live at home with mommy still or have kids of your own.We are all responsible for your own actions ..and we all know rules are rules. Edited by Bluebull
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[quote name='Kumquat' timestamp='1303839632' post='39789']
So what would be wrong with an optional chat filter? That way people can turn it on or off to suit their needs. If it has to be one way or the other I of course prefer unfiltered but I don't see having a choice being so bad.
[/quote]

The problem with an optional chat filter is it may filter the letters, but I don't think I've had any issues putting 2 and 2 together since I was about 10 years old.

I think we're all on the same page but portraying ourselves inaccurately. No one ever said the use of one foul word would cause the ban hammer to come down. It's the [b]excessive[/b] use of foul and offensive language that the mods are trying to limit and control here.

The intent behind this whole thread,[b] I think[/b], is to maintain and increase server population. You may not have any issues with language, I may not, Mimir may not, and Kyp may not, but there may be that 1 or 2 out there that does. The highest online I've seen at once was about 205, if you offend 5 people to the point they no longer log in, then you just caused 2.5% of the active server population to drop the game. Right now we simply don't have the player base to be able to afford a drop of 2.5% due to something as easily avoidable as offensive language. It's the 26th in a 30 day month, and we're still 35% away from having enough donations to cover the monthly costs of running the emulator, how many of those could/would have contributed a little to keep the emu running?

In other words (not aimed directly at kumquat, completely rhetorical) Is being able to swear worth the cost of the continued operation of the emulator?

(Yes I understand people quit the emulator for various reasons, lack of content, slow updates, poor support/interoperability, having differing views than the developers and what not. Fine, those are acceptable reasons, but is swearing and talking nasty in chat an acceptable reason?)
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I strongly doubt anybody left the game because of a few cuss words in game but I wouldn't be surprised if after looking at TS and seeing half the DEVs playing
EVE or LOTRO instead of working on the EMU to wonder.



lol, me caveman, me broke spell checker again.....brrr Edited by Rezwalker
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[quote name='Rezwalker' timestamp='1303847003' post='39795']
I strongly dough anybody left the game because of a few cuss words in game but I wouldn't be surprised if after looking at TS and seeing half the DEVs playing
EVE or LOTRO instead of working on the EMU to wonder.
[/quote]

/facepalm.

We just don't know though.
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[quote name='Mimir' timestamp='1303810071' post='39769']
1. this is NOT an open non moderated public server in the US of A, free speech does not apply
[/quote]

Let me go one further with this, even if the server was in New York City free speech does not apply. The only rule that exists is that of the Board/Development team that owns the server, no exceptions, save one. The person who's name the server bill is in. He is the only person who could contradict it and we'd have no leg to stand on. You agree not to cuss when you sign in, if you violate it expect punishment. The occasional accident is one thing and I'm sure most players see that the same way, but if you start spewing curse words or drop a few f-bombs in a public channel expect the wrath of a staff member if any are present, and the belated wrath of a staff member if any are not.
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[quote name='Strayslayer' timestamp='1303845266' post='39793']
The problem with an optional chat filter is it may filter the letters, but I don't think I've had any issues putting 2 and 2 together since I was about 10 years old.

I think we're all on the same page but portraying ourselves inaccurately. No one ever said the use of one foul word would cause the ban hammer to come down. It's the [b]excessive[/b] use of foul and offensive language that the mods are trying to limit and control here.

The intent behind this whole thread,[b] I think[/b], is to maintain and increase server population. You may not have any issues with language, I may not, Mimir may not, and Kyp may not, but there may be that 1 or 2 out there that does. The highest online I've seen at once was about 205, if you offend 5 people to the point they no longer log in, then you just caused 2.5% of the active server population to drop the game. Right now we simply don't have the player base to be able to afford a drop of 2.5% due to something as easily avoidable as offensive language. It's the 26th in a 30 day month, and we're still 35% away from having enough donations to cover the monthly costs of running the emulator, how many of those could/would have contributed a little to keep the emu running?

In other words (not aimed directly at kumquat, completely rhetorical) Is being able to swear worth the cost of the continued operation of the emulator?

(Yes I understand people quit the emulator for various reasons, lack of content, slow updates, poor support/interoperability, having differing views than the developers and what not. Fine, those are acceptable reasons, but is swearing and talking nasty in chat an acceptable reason?)
[/quote]
That's an interesting point, and something we of course need to be concerned about, but chat filters get people on the opposite side of the issue upset too.

It seems like an optional filter might be the most fair solution, but it would also take programming time to implement, and we have precious little of that to spare right now. :)
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If we have to go through the process of devoting code time to implement a filter, then flat out you attempt to evade it, it'll be 72 hours with no EnB for you. Is that what everyone wants? If we're going to commit resources to something like that instead of something far more important, it'll be a zero tolerance policy.
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Hopefully it won't come to that. Besides filters often filter words/phrases that aren't cursing, because they have curse words in the phrase. For example a person couldn't say they were from [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scunthorpe"]Scunthorpe[/url] England, without being censored.
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A Language filter is in my opinion a waste of resources that could be put somewhere else.

Its funny to me a few people that have been caught by other players using vulgar language are all for the filter, does no one else see the irony?

Its simple, watch what you say and there wont be a need to use a filter, any case like a few have said, you can easily put 2 and 2 together to get 4. Its a waste of time and resources and should not be even needed. If you feel you need to say vulgar things, get up, go afk, take a break and cool down before you play again.
Simple.

I personally think a language filter is a extra wall people can use as a excuse. Most people that abuse them tend to say:
"[i]Hey I should be able to swear because there is a filter in place and if they have it off its their problem not mine[/i]."

I am not saying that there is not accidental slip ups and those cannot be forgiven, I have been guilty of it and someone did correct me. I thanked them for it, apologized and have since policed myself so that a slip up does not happen again. What I am saying is everyone that plays must police what they say because you never know who might be on the receiving end.

If everyone watched what they say there would not even be a suggestion of a language filter. There is no need for it, and a language filter does not filter out everything.
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