The Ore Market

[Calatin]

Everyone's familiar with the calls on Market channel for weapons, engines, devices, shields, and reactors. But in the weeks I've been playing I have only twice seen a message like:

WTB <someOre>

There really is no open-market interchange of ores between players.

1) Why is this true? Where are the component makers getting their materials?
2) Is it indicative of a problem in the game economy, or is everything working as expected?

[garblesoup]

[quote name='Calatin' timestamp='1300202731' post='36608']
Everyone's familiar with the calls on Market channel for weapons, engines, devices, shields, and reactors. But in the weeks I've been playing I have only twice seen a message like:

WTB <someOre>

There really is no open-market interchange of ores between players.

1) Why is this true? Where are the component makers getting their materials?
2) Is it indicative of a problem in the game economy, or is everything working as expected?
[/quote]

1) For low volume/quick one-time builds many builders just rip components to get the minerals required. For higher volume I suspect those builders have established relationships with ore suppliers and have little need for market calls. This is pretty common, especially in Guilds (also, many builders are likely to have their own mining chars).

2) I do believe it is somewhat indicative of the current state of the game economy. Most master builders have enough credits that the cost of ripping and rebuilding comps vs the time spent in trying to source ores from the market isn't really a concern - the time is way more valuable than the credits. I think few people here, though, would say that the state of the game's economy isn't borked and that a paltry market for ores is only one of many aspects impacted.

[Lannister]

Most large scale builders have existing networks for ore supply - usually in guild. This is done in exchange for builds and similar services or out of good nature.

Also the abundance of comp drops in the universe make for a good way to stock ore coffers - ripping cops is probably my main wait to stay in ores. Every cop I get I rip and top off my ores stocks.

Buying and ripping cops is a last resort, but it is a good backup plan if you run low.

I do question Jarod's hypothesis that a decrease in credits will improve the ore market. I still think my two points above cover the lions share.

[Murdered]

Very true, I do source most my ore needs from in guild as well as rip comps when its needed, however there are times that just minning is what i have to do to get what I need.

Here are a few ores that are needed by me and will gladly pay you for:

[u][b]Name:[/b][/u]
Raw Eye Stone L7
Horusium Ore L7
Stygian Blackwater L6
Discordite L6
Apollonite L7

Send me a Tell when ya get a stack or two of one of these.

[garblesoup]

[quote name='Lannister' timestamp='1300210627' post='36614']


I do question Jarod's hypothesis that a decrease in credits will improve the ore market.
[/quote]

Where exactly did I say a decrease in credits would improve the ore market?

[Lannister]

[quote name='Jarod' timestamp='1300223484' post='36618']
Where exactly did I say a decrease in credits would improve the ore market?
[/quote]

You didn't outright - you inferred it here:

[quote name='Jarod' timestamp='1300206551' post='36610']
I do believe it is somewhat indicative of the current state of the game economy. Most master builders have enough credits that the cost of ripping and rebuilding comps ...
[/quote]

The implication being a reduction in credits in play will make ripping of comps less attractive and so drive people to the seek ores elsewhere (i.e. the ore market). Did I misunderstand what you are saying here?

[garblesoup]

[quote name='Lannister' timestamp='1300228450' post='36623']
You didn't outright - you inferred it here:



The implication being a reduction in credits in play will make ripping of comps less attractive and so drive people to the seek ores elsewhere (i.e. the ore market). Did I misunderstand what you are saying here?
[/quote]

I said/inferred nothing of the sort. What I posted about the OP's first point agreed with everything you later posted - that high volume builders typically have existing arrangements with ore suppliers and that this is also quite typical of standard Guild arrangements. In answer to the OP's second question as to whether this is a result of shortcomings of the game's economy I said it was but one of many aspects of those shortcomings. Is anyone getting rich from building, for example? As my purported Advocate do yo believe that the game economy, as it currently is, is functioning as you believe it should be?

[Lannister]

Purported? Did I get under your skin?

No, of course the economy is not healthy - there have been too many bugs that permitted people to get massive amounts of cash, and to high drop rates on Uber items making then not overly valuable. The principles of the economy are sound - it just needs tuning. Unfortunately it would take a player wipe to due that tuning.

There is a school of thought that says the current economy is better. By having the economy flush with credits the standard of play rises in general. Builders can afford to build for free, they can get the ores and comps they need to do so, and as a result people have easier access to high quality equipment.

An economy which is too tight bring out the worst in people - we all remember people like Webmaster from live.

Food for thought.

[garblesoup]

[quote name='Lannister' timestamp='1300273153' post='36659']
Purported? Did I get under your skin?


[/quote]

Only when you attempt to put words in my mouth that never came out of it.

[Terrell [BT]]

[quote name='Lannister' timestamp='1300273153' post='36659']
Purported? Did I get under your skin?

No, of course the economy is not healthy - there have been too many bugs that permitted people to get massive amounts of cash, and to high drop rates on Uber items making then not overly valuable. The principles of the economy are sound - it just needs tuning. Unfortunately it would take a player wipe to due that tuning.

There is a school of thought that says the current economy is better. By having the economy flush with credits the standard of play rises in general. Builders can afford to build for free, they can get the ores and comps they need to do so, and as a result people have easier access to high quality equipment.

An economy which is too tight bring out the worst in people - we all remember people like Webmaster from live.

Food for thought.
[/quote]

Pretty interesting point.

When you get around to tweaking the economy, I'm guessing that's during Alpha & Beta, how is it going to work out?

If you want to increase the demand for player mined ores, add more "ABC" comps (the ones that Traders can make, but aren't found in vendors) to recipes. This would probably mean adding more manufacturable equipment, both at the higher levels, and to a lesser extent the lower ones as well that require said comps. The drop rate of ABC comps may also have to be lowered, they should be a nice find, and of some value to anyone who finds them. It may be necessary to go through some of the ABC comps, or maybe some of the vendor comps, so that the two groups don't share as many common ores, make it more expensive to rip comps, or some combination of both.

More new L7+ equipment to choose from that needs ABC comps may also help increase the demand for ores.

[Kyp [LDEV]]

This may help sway the argument, eventually once we get a lot of the major stuff working we were talking (mind you, this is distant future for the moment until such time as we resolved other things) about creating new items for the 3 new classes to enhance their abilities.

[Terrell [BT]]

[quote name='Kyp' timestamp='1300317897' post='36702']
This may help sway the argument, eventually once we get a lot of the major stuff working we were talking (mind you, this is distant future for the moment until such time as we resolved other things) about [b]creating new items for the 3 new classes to enhance their abilities[/b].
[/quote]

Any hints about this?

[Kyp [LDEV]]

Well, in all honesty we have to get a start on balance and understand fully the strengths and weaknesses of the new classes (not like we have no documentation but they aren't all that refined yet). I must say that I can't speak for the other guys, but at this point I suspect you're going to see a lot more about the ring on the back of the Scout ship. I won't tell you what, yet, but its part of the storyline of the scout.

[Terrell [BT]]

[quote name='Kyp' timestamp='1300392319' post='36763']
Well, in all honesty we have to get a start on balance and understand fully the strengths and weaknesses of the new classes (not like we have no documentation but they aren't all that refined yet). I must say that I can't speak for the other guys, but at this point I suspect you're going to see a lot more about the ring on the back of the Scout ship. I won't tell you what, yet, but its part of the storyline of the scout.
[/quote]

Thank you.

The JT needs more things she can do in combat support that can't be done better by a JE or TT. Reactor Optimization is a start, she needs more. A good L135 skill, perhaps a "dispel" line of activatable devices, that can remove debuffs from other players would help.

[Falstar [MOD]]

A bit late, but I'll jump in here and also add that I know a lot of players have mule/valut toons, so they can easily store all the ore they need there for building. Also, with a lot of people multiboxing, they'll just use their other toon to mine ore if they need. I figure once the economy starts to be balanced, we'll see a little more of ore seeking.