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the "new" qualities and what we would like


Jamosite

  

27 members have voted

  1. 1. What would you like to see as loot quality

    • 95-125
    • under 95
      0
    • 80-170, but with a normal distribution.


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I have a request. i understand quality is now changed for looted items but i and many others find it insanely silly to get an item under 95 quality.

in live it was 95 to 125. I know this isn't going to be like live but i would like to petition a request to change this for the future of the game

Truly I want to see 100 quality + and the reason i say this is because you can pull an item from a corpse and it defaults to 100 quality.

so i guess in short

This is a petition for the Devs to give us 95 and up on looted items.

====-

if it is not changed , you will have higher level folks camping the bosses to get at least a 100 quality item. if you left it at 95-125 you give

everyone a chance to go after the good stuff

everything in italic is my opinion only from what i have viewed so far in the short time qualities have changed

and does not represent the views of the server, stress test , devs or Santa clause.

Edited by Jamosite
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Agreed, especially for stuff like GoD and the like. I'd be rather unhappy to go to the trouble to get a group together and run the gauntlet and get an 88q gun/other item. Guess it could be viewed as a reason to come back but I'd prefer 100 or at least 95 and up.

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Sorry, we have screenshots that disprove your theory. Although, you can expect that it will be rarer for them to come out that low on a regular basis.

Also, the poll is a bit loaded. I would suggest you modify it so that it does not take into account your bias if you wanted any serious consideration.

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Sorry, we have screenshots that disprove your theory. Although, you can expect that it will be rarer for them to come out that low on a regular basis.

Also, the poll is a bit loaded. I would suggest you modify it so that it does not take into account your bias if you wanted any serious consideration.

Tru dat.

I wouldn't want too much loot to be very low (90-) quality, but if everything looted were 110%, for instance, loot would be boring!

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Had an 85% HoDo on my JE in Live. Used it until Sunset. Don't really have a problem with some under 100% items, but would prefer that 100% be the most likely drop quality. 85-125 sounds reasonable to me.

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We could always make it unreasonably complicated and model loot qualities as a normal distribution with a mean of 100% with a standard deviation of 10% or so. That way, 68.2% of loot would be 90-110%, etc. There would be a small chance of loot falling above 130% or below 70%, but of course there would also an extremely minuscule chance of loot popping out at 400% or 0%. Sounds fun to me. ;)

400px-Standard_deviation_diagram.svg.png

Hmm... where did my pocket protector go...

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We could always make it unreasonably complicated and model loot qualities as a normal distribution with a mean of 100% with a standard deviation of 10% or so. That way, 68.2% of loot would be 90-110%, etc. There would be a small chance of loot falling above 130% or below 70%, but of course there would also an extremely minuscule chance of loot popping out at 400% or 0%. Sounds fun to me. ;)

400px-Standard_deviation_diagram.svg.png

Hmm... where did my pocket protector go...

that's pretty easy to do, but we just put min/max cutoffs to stop it going above 200% or below 80 or so%.

On computers the best way to model a normal dist is to add together a lot of smaller random ranges.

What we then do is to chop off the bottom, to restrict the lowest probability but leave the top end (up to 200% or course), to make it a bit more exciting. So more than likely the loot will be in the 95->120% range, but there will always be that small chance it's going to be awesome.

After the loot change, it's become somewhat boring, IMO because you know whatever it is, it ain't going to be that good.

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as soon as I saw that bell curve graph I knew it was going to be a good post ;)

I think it should be 85-125, like live. 100% would be the most likely. I never even saw a 125% of anything good, though I did see a few 85% and about an equal number of 115%. It would make sense to me that 85% would have the same chance as 115% and 125% was a bit more rare. The differences between 115 and 125 was pretty small though, so people didn't care that much.

so generally you would find at about 2/3 of the time you got 100% quality. I think in live, quality of loot only came in 5% intervals?

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I'm pretty sure it was 75% to 125% or I got a raw deal on a few items and I need to take it up with EA's customer service. :)

I think something similar to the distribution model that CDev mentioned was what they did in Live. Sub 100% did happen occasional, but not as often as they are now. We did two runs of the FB yesterday netting the normal loot and very few items were above 100%. We looted two of each smiter (wrath and fury) and all were below 100%.

If the game was up I would send you a picture of my 75% Caster. ;) Talk about elation followed by disappointment...

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Although, you can expect that it will be rarer for them to come out that low on a regular basis.

I tested this claim yesterday. Looted 10 items from hulks and exactly ONE of them was over 100% (105%).

Only 4 of the 10 were even above 95%, so maybe I'm not understanding what you mean by "rarer".

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We could always make it unreasonably complicated and model loot qualities as a normal distribution with a mean of 100% with a standard deviation of 10% or so. That way, 68.2% of loot would be 90-110%, etc. There would be a small chance of loot falling above 130% or below 70%, but of course there would also an extremely minuscule chance of loot popping out at 400% or 0%. Sounds fun to me. :P

400px-Standard_deviation_diagram.svg.png

Hmm... where did my pocket protector go...

A normal distribution showing standard deviations? I got a solid A in Fundamentals of Statistics in college. Standard deviation is about the only thing I remember. :(

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The biggest problem with sub 100% quality items is how the item stats scale. Under 100%, the buffs and recharge/thrust/damage scale directly, 75% has stats at 75% of the base. Above 100%, stats raise at a much reduced rate.

Examples:

GoD @120%: buffs increased by 6.6% of base, damage increased by 10% of base. stat increase 1/2 and 1/6 of quality increase

Sting of the Mordana @167%: buffs increased 22%, reload decreased to 76.6% (+30% dps of base). stat increase 1/3 and 1/2 of quality increase

Black Caster @75%: buffs decreased to 75% of base, reload increased by 33% (75% dps of base). stat decrease is 100% of quality decrease.

HotM @92%: buffs decreased to 92% of base, recharge decreased to 92% of base. stat decrease is 100% of quality decrease.

Black Power 9 @148%: buffs increased by 15.8%, recharge increased by 16.8%. stat increase 1/3 of quality increase

Maybe if the stats didnt drop off so fast below 100% it wouldnt be so bad, but as is below 100% quickly becomes worthless, if they werent already.

Another problem: some buffs dont get better with quality above 100%, but all buffs get worse with quality below 100%. Some consistancy would be nice.

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The biggest problem with sub 100% quality items is how the item stats scale. Under 100%, the buffs and recharge/thrust/damage scale directly, 75% has stats at 75% of the base. Above 100%, stats raise at a much reduced rate.

Examples:

GoD @120%: buffs increased by 6.6% of base, damage increased by 10% of base. stat increase 1/2 and 1/6 of quality increase

Sting of the Mordana @167%: buffs increased 22%, reload decreased to 76.6% (+30% dps of base). stat increase 1/3 and 1/2 of quality increase

Black Caster @75%: buffs decreased to 75% of base, reload increased by 33% (75% dps of base). stat decrease is 100% of quality decrease.

HotM @92%: buffs decreased to 92% of base, recharge decreased to 92% of base. stat decrease is 100% of quality decrease.

Black Power 9 @148%: buffs increased by 15.8%, recharge increased by 16.8%. stat increase 1/3 of quality increase

Maybe if the stats didnt drop off so fast below 100% it wouldnt be so bad, but as is below 100% quickly becomes worthless, if they werent already.

Another problem: some buffs dont get better with quality above 100%, but all buffs get worse with quality below 100%. Some consistancy would be nice.

Hi

You are correct!!

The stats on all items are royally screwed up if quality drops below 100%. Thanks for pointing out these errors.

We will endeavor to get the server code correct.

Thanks again!!

Riia

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Hi

You are correct!!

The stats on all items are royally screwed up if quality drops below 100%. Thanks for pointing out these errors.

We will endeavor to get the server code correct.

Thanks again!!

Riia

I don't know how to state this without sounding derisive and pissy so please forgive...

If you guys knew that this code was incorrect and would cause items to become "royally screwed" by the change, why did you implement it without fixing the code issue first?

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I don't know how to state this without sounding derisive and pissy so please forgive...

If you guys knew that this code was incorrect and would cause items to become "royally screwed" by the change, why did you implement it without fixing the code issue first?

It doesnt sound they knew about it, and I've never seen any mention of it before, by other players or devs. Nor has there been any reason for players to consider using sub 100% items until now, so they were just passed over from corpse to vendor, never bothering to look at the actual stats, since you would have to equip and repair it before they updated correctly.

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I don't know how to state this without sounding derisive and pissy so please forgive...

If you guys knew that this code was incorrect and would cause items to become "royally screwed" by the change, why did you implement it without fixing the code issue first?

First, my "claim" was not that it is that way at this very moment. This system was just implemented, once it is closer to finalized it will act much like the standard distribution that CDel describes. Programming is an iterative process. You start with a block of shite, and fine tune it until it does everything you want with no fat.

Second, obviously we didn't know about it doing what it did, otherwise Riia would have not said "Thanks for pointing this out." :(

What we KNEW is that items had this range in live. What wasn't happening was that it wasn't dropping like this but instead up to 180% quality which was (very very very very + 10e^126) bad, at least for the game overall. We're going to make the decisions for the game that make the game better in the long run, even if it hurts folks who are testing in the short term. If you don't want to deal with this kind of thing, the only other option you have is not to play until we're finished, but that is of course up to you because frankly the more people we have hitting the server, the quicker we find these bugs and fix them.

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I don't know how to state this without sounding derisive and pissy so please forgive...

If you guys knew that this code was incorrect and would cause items to become "royally screwed" by the change, why did you implement it without fixing the code issue first?

The code is added by someone, it might work but not correctly, but at least there's something there we can tidy up and fix later.

I've never looked too hard at how the stats are calculated - they are pretty heavy looking algorithms and there's a lot of comments around them that make it look as though whoever did it knew what they were doing. Probably just needs a little tweak somewhere - I suspect it was written before items took quality damage, so < 100% never really got tested.

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I'd support a higher than 125% cap. I know 180 was overboard but what about capping it at 140-150 range? of-course using a normal model so drops above 125 become ultra rare, but the hard cut-off be at 140-150 somewhere in that range?

EDITED after reading whole thread hehe

Edited by irrelevant
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I'd support a higher than 125% cap. I know 180 was overboard but what about capping it at 140-150 range? of-course using a normal model so drops above 125 become ultra rare, but the hard cut-off be at 140-150 somewhere in that range?

yep I think we're all agreed that 95-120 should be the norm, but with a rare chance of hitting above 120.

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