Macro Useage

[Mortabis]

But debating abortion is fun :'(

[bondct]

i think we need to take the abortion fight to a whole new level... this should not be fought in the streets of our towns and cities and at the doorstep of our nations capital... we need to take the battle to the source and have sperm and eggs duking it out... too long have they sat silent in this conflict, readily accepting random chance outcome...

prolife sperm need to swim slower, and ask before they enter the egg and understand that no is just that no... prochoice eggs need intervention before conception... ...umm ok im done here

[Mortabis]

LOL! If only sperm and eggs had brains. I guess what I am trying to say is that yeah, the game is in a pre-alpha, pre-beta state and we are lucky to be able to play the game in the first place, I feel as though we should be thankful for that rather than taking advantage of what the DEVS have done by looking to exploit the game by using dual boxing and macro's. Lets just play the game legitimately, join party's, kill stuff and have fun! I mean for real, if this where a beta for any other game, would we be looking for ways to exploit it? Or for ways to enjoy it and make it better?

[Guest Guest]

Wow, why does everything that you disagree with have to be an exploit? Everyone has their own style of play and should be allowed to enjoy the game how they like. Should everyone equip their toons like you say Mort? Should we level the skills that you deem worthy? Maybe I should go read the "how to play the way the chosen few want you to play" forum. I can't see how someone running a trade macro is an exploit compared to someone gathering loot and trading it to another player for the higher trade xp. Which one is the exploit here? When some of us were born the sperm cells generated a few more brain cells than others, hence we have the ability to do more than one thing at a time.

[rabidkiller]

Wow, why does everything that you disagree with have to be an exploit? Everyone has their own style of play and should be allowed to enjoy the game how they like. Should everyone equip their toons like you say Mort? Should we level the skills that you deem worthy? Maybe I should go read the "how to play the way the chosen few want you to play" forum. I can't see how someone running a trade macro is an exploit compared to someone gathering loot and trading it to another player for the higher trade xp. Which one is the exploit here? When some of us were born the sperm cells generated a few more brain cells than others, hence we have the ability to do more than one thing at a time.

wow capt macro only has one PC and gonna cry now cause the devs said no macros, you find the game that unplayable and not fun go play something else

oh yeah how brave mr guest is lmao

[Guest Guest]

Thats "General" macro to you cajun. Just because some of us don't think how you like us to think doesn't mean we're bad people. I've sent my macro's out to many many people who have used it to level their toons. How do you think they got to 50 so fast while you were still in the noob area? Yea, I'll remain a guest since its like being Jewish living in Nazi Germany because I dont think like you want me to or play how you want me to play. Why don't you post something constructive like "how you should play this game". I'll be happy to look it over and give er a try.

[Numiah2]

That is comparable to a hot naked chick bending over in front of you...

One of the better quotes this week.

I'd tap that too

[Mortabis]

Wow, why does everything that you disagree with have to be an exploit? Everyone has their own style of play and should be allowed to enjoy the game how they like. Should everyone equip their toons like you say Mort? Should we level the skills that you deem worthy? Maybe I should go read the "how to play the way the chosen few want you to play" forum. I can't see how someone running a trade macro is an exploit compared to someone gathering loot and trading it to another player for the higher trade xp. Which one is the exploit here? When some of us were born the sperm cells generated a few more brain cells than others, hence we have the ability to do more than one thing at a time.

What else have I stated that I disagree with besides using macros and multi-boxing to the point where it causes unfair advantages? Never before have I posted any guides about what skills people should lvl, or what items they should equip In fact, what does equipment or skills have anything to do with the fact that macros and dual boxing are being used as exploits? AND if I remember correctly the trade exploit was fixed some time ago? Also sperm cells have nothing to do with generating brain cells, Multitasking Behaviors are Mapped to the Prefrontal Cortex anyway, And is generally not a good thing. Don't believe me? Then check out my source http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2008/10/30/learning-to-multitask-dont-bother/

[Guest Guest]

What else have I stated that I disagree with besides using macros and multi-boxing to the point where it causes unfair advantages? Never before have I posted any guides about what skills people should lvl, or what items they should equip In fact, what does equipment or skills have anything to do with the fact that macros and dual boxing are being used as exploits? AND if I remember correctly the trade exploit was fixed some time ago? Also sperm cells have nothing to do with generating brain cells, Multitasking Behaviors are Mapped to the Prefrontal Cortex anyway, And is generally not a good thing. Don't believe me? Then check out my source http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2008/10/30/learning-to-multitask-dont-bother/

Well your probably right about the sperm thing. Seems like you've taken some time to study up on the subject. But the "psychentral" argument is right up there with the old "Size doesn't matter" argument.

[Floss]

Someone dual boxing won't be able to monopolize much of anything important once end-game is working as intended, so that's really a non-issue. If you think it isn't fair, buy a $75 Pentium 3 system and dual box if it's that big of a deal. Cost isn't an issue for dual-boxing given the system requirements for this game.

Macros are bad taste, and if you are just going to automate the game, what's the point in even playing it. The level grind in this game is a joke compared to "hardcore" MMOs, even compared to WoW, which is levelling-light.

[Kyp [LDEV]]

What many of the people fail to look at who are pro-macro is that you gain all of the reward with none of the effort. This is unfair to the players who DO play the game as intended. This is one of the main reasons why macros are frowned upon in so many games. Another big reason (in the commercial world) is that you're using up bandwidth an actual player might enjoy. That and it leads to people farming the currency of the game. This is why we're not going to support it if you're not present.

[Tyran]

Cheaters, thieves, . . . whatever scum you want - it's in their nature.

As it's in their nature then by preventing them from cheating/thieving, you are preventing them from being thieves/cheaters. That way nobody gets stolen from, and nobody gets caught stealing and thus nobody has to pay for his crimes. win/win situation.

What many of the people fail to look at who are pro-macro is that you gain all of the reward with none of the effort. This is unfair to the players who DO play the game as intended. This is one of the main reasons why macros are frowned upon in so many games. Another big reason (in the commercial world) is that you're using up bandwidth an actual player might enjoy. That and it leads to people farming the currency of the game. This is why we're not going to support it if you're not present.

Please understand that those who use macros are only acting on the situation. Where you might see it as a pathological desire to cheat, the pro-macro people see it as an opportunity given by a game that is flawed in design(©Avani).

It would indeed be unfair if only certain people could do it. But the reality is different: finding a good macro program takes like 5 mins, and writing the macro takes another 10 min at most. Everyone can do it easily. Hell, given some time people could just download a ready-made macro for their purposes.

By the looks of it you would allow attended macro-ing. That is not solving anything. A macro can be made to play a sound to wake you up if you are sleeping and recieving a PM. And there are endless more solutions to circumvent the so-called attended macro-ing. Not to forget multibox macro-ing will magnify the problem, especially bandwidth-wise.

As for the enforcing of attended macro-ing, it would require constant checking if people are present while botting. Would the GM's enjoy this?

Another very important aspect to consider is that a situation may occur where macro-ing becomes the norm to level up/farm. This would ruin a game pretty easily as you fly about and see bots farming/levelling everywhere.

The way I see it is unattended macro-ing can be made equal to attended macro-ing. Be knowy of this.

[Mortabis]

Someone dual boxing won't be able to monopolize much of anything important once end-game is working as intended, so that's really a non-issue. If you think it isn't fair, buy a $75 Pentium 3 system and dual box if it's that big of a deal. Cost isn't an issue for dual-boxing given the system requirements for this game.

Macros are bad taste, and if you are just going to automate the game, what's the point in even playing it. The level grind in this game is a joke compared to "hardcore" MMOs, even compared to WoW, which is levelling-light.

The point is, doing anything that gives you a unfair advantage over players that play the game normally is a exploit. Multi-boxing and using macros are both exploits. WHY else would anyone want to dual-box other than to have a advantage over someone that doesn't? AGAIN if this was a beta for any other game it would be impossible to dual-box generally because only 1 beta account is permitted per-tester. I feel as though we are taking advantage of what the DEVS have done to revive the game by using dual-boxing and macros.

[Kyp [LDEV]]

As it's in their nature then by preventing them from cheating/thieving, you are preventing them from being thieves/cheaters. That way nobody gets stolen from, and nobody gets caught stealing and thus nobody has to pay for his crimes. win/win situation.

Please understand that those who use macros are only acting on the situation. Where you might see it as a pathological desire to cheat, the pro-macro people see it as an opportunity given by a game that is flawed in design(©Avani).

It would indeed be unfair if only certain people could do it. But the reality is different: finding a good macro program takes like 5 mins, and writing the macro takes another 10 min at most. Everyone can do it easily. Hell, given some time people could just download a ready-made macro for their purposes.

By the looks of it you would allow attended macro-ing. That is not solving anything. A macro can be made to play a sound to wake you up if you are sleeping and recieving a PM. And there are endless more solutions to circumvent the so-called attended macro-ing. Not to forget multibox macro-ing will magnify the problem, especially bandwidth-wise.

As for the enforcing of attended macro-ing, it would require constant checking if people are present while botting. Would the GM's enjoy this?

Another very important aspect to consider is that a situation may occur where macro-ing becomes the norm to level up/farm. This would ruin a game pretty easily as you fly about and see bots farming/levelling everywhere.

The way I see it is unattended macro-ing can be made equal to attended macro-ing. Be knowy of this.

Oh I can assure you, I examine it from all sides. Years ago when all I did was play games I used to use macros, and I know how simple it is. Unfortunately there's no way we can absolutely prevent it, we can only make attempts. Sounds don't do much for you (until it's too late) when a level 66 spawns nearby on a script intent on murdering just you and is impervious to almost all damage types.)

Just as easily as a script can be written to macro, another can be written to recognize macro'd actions. If commands are being sent too rapidly for a human to be inputting them, for example. It happens fairly frequently with macros.

GMs probably won't enjoy chasing after macroers, and would prefer everyone play with a modicum of fair play in mind; however, you don't sign on to be a game master for enjoyment;)). We'll do what we can to prevent abuse of course, but we have a neighborhood watch so to speak, it's all the players who don't believe macros are ok. =)

Don't get me wrong, I understand players do it because they find something boring, that's something we hope to prevent eventually, but at this stage obviously it would be foolhardy to try to implement too much before all of our systems are working as they should.)

Kyp

[bondct]

i can accept any reason anyone wants to give on either side of this whole dual box thing... but the one thing I could never understand is the whole unfair advantage arguement... hell life is one big giant unfair advantage... my neighbor was born into money so he doesnt have to work thats an unfair adv... I was born damn good looking so I get all the girls thats an unfair adv... my friend plays the guitar, puts all his time and money into it and practices 7 days a week and is better than me cuz i only play 1 day a week, thats an unfair adv...

I am a forum whore... I demand good logical arguments to keep my reading interest... entertain me, dont cry in my cornflakes, your spilling milk on my keyboard!!! now focus on the quantifiable... gotta teach u guys everything

[Kyp [LDEV]]

i can accept any reason anyone wants to give on either side of this whole dual box thing... but the one thing I could never understand is the whole unfair advantage arguement... hell life is one big giant unfair advantage... my neighbor was born into money so he doesnt have to work thats an unfair adv... I was born damn good looking so I get all the girls thats an unfair adv... my friend plays the guitar, puts all his time and money into it and practices 7 days a week and is better than me cuz i only play 1 day a week, thats an unfair adv...

I am a forum whore... I demand good logical arguments to keep my reading interest... entertain me, dont cry in my cornflakes, your spilling milk on my keyboard!!! now focus on the quantifiable... gotta teach u guys everything

Games aren't the real world, nor are they (usually) intended to be. For a game to be fun, it has to be fair (or at least a close approximation thereof).

my friend plays the guitar, puts all his time and money into it and practices 7 days a week and is better than me cuz i only play 1 day a week, thats an unfair adv...

Since you can't macro your learning of the guitar, this one was probably a bad example for the cause, don't you think?

[Mortabis]

i can accept any reason anyone wants to give on either side of this whole dual box thing... but the one thing I could never understand is the whole unfair advantage arguement... hell life is one big giant unfair advantage... my neighbor was born into money so he doesnt have to work thats an unfair adv... I was born damn good looking so I get all the girls thats an unfair adv... my friend plays the guitar, puts all his time and money into it and practices 7 days a week and is better than me cuz i only play 1 day a week, thats an unfair adv...

I am a forum whore... I demand good logical arguments to keep my reading interest... entertain me, dont cry in my cornflakes, your spilling milk on my keyboard!!! now focus on the quantifiable... gotta teach u guys everything

Your right, life is unfair. But that doesn't mean games should be too, Games should be fun for everyone to play. After all there only purpose is to help us escape the fact that for the majority of us, life sucks. In order for a game to be fun and enjoyable for everyone to play it must be as fair and balanced as possible. The problem with multi-boxing is that many players are running groups all by them selfs allowing them to camp/farm certain mobs creating an unfair advantage where as a single player trying to attack the same mob is at a disadvantage. This act of multi-boxing to create groups for personal benefit disrupts the normal gameplay and therefore is in violation of Net-7 Entertainment Code of Conduct, which states on page 8, rule #13 that you may not disrupt the normal playability of a region, territory, area or location. Multi-boxing is a unnatural way to play the game and can grant the people that use this tactic many advantages over those that don't thus making it a exploit.

[Toreava]

I guess this gets a nasty point across. Existing players bringing over new players and teaching them how to macro.

Love these posts.

Macroing does disadvantage those of us truly playing the game. If you want to macro, macro your laundry or some drudge thing you don't want to do. Oh -- there it is... This game is drudge? Don't play.

macros.doc

[bondct]

Your right, life is unfair. But that doesn't mean games should be too, Games should be fun for everyone to play. After all there only purpose is to help us escape the fact that for the majority of us, life sucks. In order for a game to be fun and enjoyable for everyone to play it must be as fair and balanced as possible. The problem with multi-boxing is that many players are running groups all by them selfs allowing them to camp/farm certain mobs creating an unfair advantage where as a single player trying to attack the same mob is at a disadvantage. This act of multi-boxing to create groups for personal benefit disrupts the normal gameplay and therefore is in violation of Net-7 Entertainment Code of Conduct, which states on page 8, rule #13 that you may not disrupt the normal playability of a region, territory, area or location. Multi-boxing is a unnatural way to play the game and can grant the people that use this tactic many advantages over those that don't thus making it a exploit.

so that is still the best you can do... your sticking with life is not fair and games should be and quoting more tos /sigh "I have failed you, Anakin. I have failed you." you can look for me on the Net-7 news... I will be the one that threw myself out of an airlock

/edit or would that be in violation of the Net-7 Environmental Act - see my sig

[Tyran]

I guess this gets a nasty point across. Existing players bringing over new players and teaching them how to macro.

Love these posts.

Macroing does disadvantage those of us truly playing the game. If you want to macro, macro your laundry or some drudge thing you don't want to do. Oh -- there it is... This game is drudge? Don't play.

How is that file you posted incriminating??

Now you mention it, it's maybe a good idea to have a thread on how to macro - that way none will be at a disadvantage.

[garblesoup]

As it's in their nature then by preventing them from cheating/thieving, you are preventing them from being thieves/cheaters.

Nope, only from being *accomplished* thieves.

[garblesoup]

Your right, life is unfair. But that doesn't mean games should be too,

You know, you're right. Come to think of it, what about people that have better computers than you? Faster processors, better vidcards, better ISP connections? We know that ppl with bad ISP conn's are more likely to CTD/GTD - simply unfair. I demand that we put a cap on all PC equipment and ISP connections and require everyone to play down to the lowest common denominator - anything else is "unfair". What about those people that have more free time than others? They are able to spend more time in-game and get "advantages" over other players with less free time (or RL's). Also unfair! We need a cap on maximum time in-game/per day to level the playing field!

Ohhh, and don't get me started on those people that are . . . young! I hear they can read the default text color in General and never have to fiddle with the /setcolor command - that's really unfair.

[bondct]

You know, you're right. Come to think of it, what about people that have better computers than you? Faster processors, better vidcards, better ISP connections? We know that ppl with bad ISP conn's are more likely to CTD/GTD - simply unfair. I demand that we put a cap on all PC equipment and ISP connections and require everyone to play down to the lowest common denominator - anything else is "unfair". What about those people that have more free time than others? They are able to spend more time in-game and get "advantages" over other players with less free time (or RL's). Also unfair! We need a cap on maximum time in-game/per day to level the playing field!

Ohhh, and don't get me started on those people that are . . . young! I hear they can read the default text color in General and never have to fiddle with the /setcolor command - that's really unfair.

actually there is a command for that... its

sv_maxRate 4000 (about 56k modem speed)

cl_maxPackets 30 (about 56k modem speed)

com_maxFps 60 (about the min you can set it at and still have smooth fluid motion)

Well that is what it was in Quake III... however it basically controls how fast a connection that any player can have to the server

[Guest Guest]

You know, you're right. Come to think of it, what about people that have better computers than you? Faster processors, better vidcards, better ISP connections? We know that ppl with bad ISP conn's are more likely to CTD/GTD - simply unfair. I demand that we put a cap on all PC equipment and ISP connections and require everyone to play down to the lowest common denominator - anything else is "unfair". What about those people that have more free time than others? They are able to spend more time in-game and get "advantages" over other players with less free time (or RL's). Also unfair! We need a cap on maximum time in-game/per day to level the playing field!

Ohhh, and don't get me started on those people that are . . . young! I hear they can read the default text color in General and never have to fiddle with the /setcolor command - that's really unfair.

Gee Jarod want me to upload my macros to you so you can level the playing field?

Vote "Jarod" for dictator of the world!

[trenthowell]

Gee Jarod want me to upload my macros to you so you can level the playing field?

Vote "Jarod" for dictator of the world!

I guess its a real good thing you're too scared to post with your actual account right now, but I suppose that would mean we'd have to acknowledge you as someone with a valid opinion