Macro Useage

[vasi]

Can an authorative person clarify the position on macro useage please? In AF_Vet's post this is stated:

24) You will not contrive or use any macro or stand-alone application which will allow you to operate game play in an unattended manner. Botting is strictly prohibited and will incur an instant Level 1 player suspension when detected. Standard macro use such as in a Logitec: G-15 keyboard or the Nostromo Series Game Controller is an acceptable method of using a macroing system.

So as I read it I could use a macro app to take the grind out of a traderun so long as I was present.

However I am reading in other posts that no macro useage is allowed.

[Phaethon]

My link<br><br>"On the emulator are no macros allowed at all."

[vasi]

Is a content dev authorative on this subject?

[BetaGreyrider]

Macro use in games was allowed in EA-Live using the macro-system they (EA) added ae the end before final sunset.

Please note that these in-game macro's could be broken during gameplay (say you being hit by a mob etc etc.).

I am not aware of a macro system in this version of E&B so that means you cant use it.

Using an external macro system is by that logic NOT allowed if you would ask me. Even if you are behind your PC watching the screen from time to time.

That's my take on this macro thing.

[Numiah2]

Macro use in games was allowed in EA-Live using the macro-system they (EA) added ae the end before final sunset.

Please note that these in-game macro's could be broken during gameplay (say you being hit by a mob etc etc.).

I am not aware of a macro system in this version of E&B so that means you cant use it.

Using an external macro system is by that logic NOT allowed if you would ask me. Even if you are behind your PC watching the screen from time to time.

That's my take on this macro thing.

Nuh uh, macro's weren't allowed originally by EA. It was only after the sunset announcement they decided nothing to do about it when people would macro, but it still was a TOS. The DEV's running the show were pulled of the project right after announcement and only a few technicians remained to keep her up. Every now and then they were visiting the servers for a chat or even for Halloween. Well, at least that's how I remember it.

And about macro's getting broken, that is not quite the truth. I've macro-mined and camped spawns a lot (okay I admit) and a good written macro could also handle mobs and pop-rocks. These were completely self sustaining. When the ships hull was full it even gated and docked for me.

If you asking me : "should it be allowed" ?

No, absolutely not !

We have a relative small playerbase, so the chances of pooping someones spawn or field gets quite annoying since we have a small group of players.

The game was meant to be played by humans, not bots.

As rule 24 states, you can use macro's, as long as you attend them. If they catch you afk, ur done with.

I know several persons online who have the instructions to watch for people using macro's, and they have the knowledge to know what to look for.

2cts

[Vinzent Zeppelin[IS]]

People actually do this? If you enjoy watching a bot accumulate arbitrary statistics, I recommend Progress Quest.

[Tyran]

If the opportunity for macro-ing exists then gamers WILL ALWAYS try.

At the moment mobs are so incredibly retarded, and it takes so outragiously long to level, that I can imagine people are insulted by this and resort to macro-ing.

I would prefer a more creative approach than threats of banning:

How to fix both attended and unattended macro-ing in enb?

In EnB macro-ing is likely to take place with trade runs and farming.

Dynamic trade runs will fix the trade run macro-ing easily.

For farming there are many measures:

-Make mob spawn times a bit more random than now.

-A small chance for two or three mobs to spawn at the same time.

-A small chance to spawn a more powerful mob (a boss?)

-Give some mobs random resistances to damage. Something like 90% deflect or so - it is killable by a human but a macro will spend so long hitting it that many more mobs will spawn in that time and overwhelm the bot.

-Give one out of every X mobs that spawns some random anti macro skill like hacking. If that mob hacks the shield, reactor or weapons the macro will be out of synch and likely be overwhelmed.

-there are a bazillion other possibilities

The whole point here is adding random factors which will mess up the rhythm of bots, making it impossible to macro. A side-effect is that mobs will be a little bit more challenging like this (which is what we want, no?)

By implementing just a few of these measures I can guarantee you nobody is going to be able to macro MOBs even close to their level, which would make macro-ing pointless.

[Tyran]

Sorry for the double post but something needs to be added to the above.

By making MOBs resistant to macros it can only be a win-win situation:

- The player won't get banned for macro-ing because he can't and will have smarter mobs against him which is more acceptable to level against.

- The emulator crew will not have to ban people for botting, and will not have to spend time enforcing anti-macro rules.

[bondct]

keep in mind one thing and one thing only and this IS NOT a reflection on the devs... but macroing is and always will be a result of a flaw in game design (no matter what game)... and you can hate me for that statement all you want and you can deny it but its my opinion and its pretty damn valid...

what is a dynamic trade run? and do the come in duo's

Today, if you invent a better mousetrap, the government comes along with a better mouse. -Ronald Reagan

(and remember we elected an Actor as President )

-this post has been submitted via macro

[Tienbau]

keep in mind one thing and one thing only and this IS NOT a reflection on the devs... but macroing is and always will be a result of a flaw in game design (no matter what game)... and you can hate me for that statement all you want and you can deny it but its my opinion and its pretty damn valid...

what is a dynamic trade run? and do the come in duo's

Today, if you invent a better mousetrap, the government comes along with a better mouse. -Ronald Reagan

(and remember we elected an Actor as President )

-this post has been submitted via macro

well we kinda know all this, there will be a lot more dynamic content eventually, but don't forget we're still working away at things to get them actually working in the first place.

If you really want to bot at the moment then there's nothing stopping you I guess, but it does seem a little pointless really.

[garblesoup]

At the moment mobs are so incredibly retarded, and it takes so outragiously long to level, that I can imagine people are insulted by this and resort to macro-ing.

Whoa, "outragiously (sic) long to level"?? What game are you playing? With the XP boosts leveling is much quicker than it was in Live.

I also don't buy making changes to "prevent players from being banned for macro'ing". That's like saying we'll make better doorlocks to prevent people from being arrested for stealing. People do wrong things they should expect to answer for them. If you want gameplay changes, fine, make your case about how they would improve gameplay - but to say it's to protect *cheaters* from themselves, well, you just lose me there.

But, like TB said, there's much bigger fish to fry ATM. If ppl are macro'ing and not getting caught, well, so be it - why anybody does it is beyond me but I guess that's because I'm not a cheater.

[Kenu [CDEV]]

I think not allowing macros right now is important. We're stress testing the server and how much stress testing can you do if everyone is macroing the same trade route over and over?

How will we find bugs with many players not actually playing nor paying attention to their screen?

Another issue is establishing a precedent. Since right now our economy is not very set up and not all our work is polished, we might have considered not having a rule against macros, but in the future I am sure we would want to outlaw macros. If we allowed macros now it would be harder to make a rule against them in the future. By harder I mean there would be more outrage since people grew used to them.

[Mortabis]

I don't personaly use macros, BUT if dual boxing is allowed then so should the use of macros. If you are talking about a unfair advantage overall, someone who has between 2 or 5 accounts creating their own partys and such is far worse than a single player using attended macros to do trade runs... IMO if your going to ban the use of macros then also ban the use of dual accounts.

[trenthowell]

Dual boxing has NEVER been against the rules of any MMO that I've heard of. In most MMO, the cost of Dual boxing is monetary, now, with no charge, it is entirely open to those who wish to do it, and have the hardware available. I can't see how it harms anyone to dual box.

[garblesoup]

I think not allowing macros right now is important. We're stress testing the server and how much stress testing can you do if everyone is macroing the same trade route over and over?

How will we find bugs with many players not actually playing nor paying attention to their screen?

Another issue is establishing a precedent. Since right now our economy is not very set up and not all our work is polished, we might have considered not having a rule against macros, but in the future I am sure we would want to outlaw macros. If we allowed macros now it would be harder to make a rule against them in the future. By harder I mean there would be more outrage since people grew used to them.

To be clear, I'm not advocating macro'ing or permission of it. If the resources exist to police it then by all means I'm for that. I do wonder, though, about the actual, real, usage - I've yet to encounter any char that appeared to be macro'ing. That's not saying that somebody isn't but I think the answer is going to be somewhere between "everyone is macroing" and zero and my hunch is the slider bar is going to be a lot closer to the zero side.

[Guest BlueOutlaw]

You know what? Making the macros is far more fun than playing this game is nowadays. I built some of the most useful macros in live and for this so-called game. The "devs" haven't thought of the fact that there is no possible way to level you trade or explore other than doing trade runs until your freggin eyes pop out. Then there is that mission in VT. WTH were the "devs" thinking? Who in they're right mind would run trade runs that many times manually to get to 50? Even after you hit 50 what are you going to do? Go compete with "the chosen few" for the few bosses that are in the game? All said and done, yea I've had a heck of a lot more fun building my macros than I have playing this game.

Experiment Terminated

[bondct]

in giving it more thought, I think that macros should be mandatory and that you should only be allowed to play if you use macros 100% of the time... I mean how cool would that be, a game with such low expectations of end-user interaction that all you did was login... start a macro... then leave your pc to go do sumtin else... and then pay for that privlegde... (assuming the game cost money to play)... sounds like a devs wet dream

[Guest Guest]

Dual boxing has NEVER been against the rules of any MMO that I've heard of. In most MMO, the cost of Dual boxing is monetary, now, with no charge, it is entirely open to those who wish to do it, and have the hardware available. I can't see how it harms anyone to dual box.

Dual boxing is one thing when you have to pay for the extra account, its something totally different when the game is free. Having to pay for extra accounts limits the usage with most people only having 1 extra account. In a free to play game that limitation is no longer there allowing for people to create their own party's if they have the hardware available which can cause significant imbalance to game play by limiting the need to search for interactive players to form a party, add the fact that the maximum player base to begin with is really low (between 100 and 300 players online at a given time) you could potentially have a big problem.

Now looking from the viewpoint of a company that charges a monthly fee to play, the more accounts a single person has the more money the company makes from the single person, IMO thats why pay to play games not only allow but sometimes encourage people to own multiple accounts. They would be insane not to, but with the fact that this game is free and has a limited player base I would suggest limiting dual boxing to just that, dual boxing. OR removing it all together. We must remember that not everyone has 5 computers or a machine powerful enough to run 5 instances of VMware on their machine.

Now when it comes to using a macro to do trade runs, I have looked at and examined the current macros from AC tools, and all of these macros are attended macros that require you to be at the computer in case they bug out which happens quite frequently, Also there are NO combat macros OR mining macros that can be obtained and or used at this time; although I am sure some exist in private collections.

SO in closing I would like to say that its hard enough to find a party as it is with the limited player base and at this time having more than 1 extra account provides a unfair advantage to those that don't. How much fun would EnB be if no player interaction was required at all? Much less fun than it is now.

[Tyran]

Whoa, "outragiously (sic) long to level"?? What game are you playing? With the XP boosts leveling is much quicker than it was in Live.

I also don't buy making changes to "prevent players from being banned for macro'ing". That's like saying we'll make better doorlocks to prevent people from being arrested for stealing. People do wrong things they should expect to answer for them. If you want gameplay changes, fine, make your case about how they would improve gameplay - but to say it's to protect *cheaters* from themselves, well, you just lose me there.

But, like TB said, there's much bigger fish to fry ATM. If ppl are macro'ing and not getting caught, well, so be it - why anybody does it is beyond me but I guess that's because I'm not a cheater.

Try to level past 100 when you gain normal exp again. And do it without touring.

Your analogy regarding doorlocks and stealing is not correct.

If all doors were impenetrable and there was 0% risk of stealing, then nobody would be caught stealing since it would be unheard of. No policing would be required and those resources could be used elsewhere.

The situation ingame is that the mobs are ASKING to get macro'd, all the hotkeys for easily farming macros exist and the mobs are stupid enough to be farmed by even the most rudimentary of bots.

That is comparable to a hot naked chick bending over in front of you...

[bondct]

That is comparable to a hot naked chick bending over in front of you...

if there is a hot naked chick bending over in front of me... all i gotta say is BAM!

[garblesoup]

Dual boxing is one thing when you have to pay for the extra account, its something totally different when the game is free. Having to pay for extra accounts limits the usage with most people only having 1 extra account.

Reality check - currently this is an Alpha *Stress* Test - having more active characters in game interacting with each other is *good*. If people have the available resources to have multiple chars going that helps with the *test*.

[garblesoup]

Try to level past 100 when you gain normal exp again. And do it without touring.

Your analogy regarding doorlocks and stealing is not correct.

If all doors were impenetrable and there was 0% risk of stealing, then nobody would be caught stealing since it would be unheard of. No policing would be required and those resources could be used elsewhere.

But, of course, that's not what I said. Your original post was claiming that we needed to make game changes to avoid having to ban people for macro'ing - cheating. My reply merely pointed out that having to change things to help dishonest people avoid getting caught being dishonest . . . is dumb. Cheaters, thieves, . . . whatever scum you want - it's in their nature. If you want gameplay changes, make the case how it improves the gameplay. If you want to protect dirtbags . . . be a lawyer, it pays better.

[Guest Guest]

AND BAM! Emeril Lagasse has done it again.

[Mortabis]

Reality check - currently this is an Alpha *Stress* Test - having more active characters in game interacting with each other is *good*. If people have the available resources to have multiple chars going that helps with the *test*.

I agree having more interactive players in the game is good! I don't see how having multiple accounts helps the devs with the stress test, if thats the case they should encourage everyone that has the ability and hardware to create and play as many accounts as possible. ALSO I guarantee we will have just as many people dual boxing in live as we do in the stress test if not more. SO at that point what would be your excuse for dual boxing other than to have a unfair advantage over those that can't?

[bondct]

and BAM! BAM! there we have it... this is now officially the classic no win argument thread between Team Macro-DualBox and Team Solo-HandsOn... its like trying to debate abortion...