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Cherry Picking

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+1 Mattsacre

 

What problem?  Devs have said on many occasions that fields respawn regardless of  incomplete mining.  The 'problem' people have is arriving second and knowing someone else got there first. Learn the spawn rates and be there first - solved. The idea that someone else should tidy up to your satisfaction seems odd - the field will reappear anyway.

 

There seems to be a lot less competition in the fields these days so I'm not sure what the fuss is about.

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Hmmmm!   So cherry picking is not a problem.  Sorry I posted.

 

 

Tree/Cad

Don't be sorry.  It is just a sore subject.  Sorry you were not around for the first, second, third....two hundredth thread, on the non existent cherry picking.  Funny how something that does not exist has a name, description and we all know what it is.

 

It is aggravating to get to a picked over field.  

 

My motto "can't beat em...join em" you could become the best non existent cherry picker out there. In fact get so good at it they might change the name from Cherry picked field to ..."That field has been Tree/Cad'ed"   

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If you come across a hulk field that has been "cherry picked", at least you now know where the hulk field is.  It was totally cleared, you might never know it was there.

 

So, these "cherry pickers" are really harming themselves by not completely clearing the field, they allowing others to know where the field is, resulting in more competition over the hulks.

 

At least that's one way to look at it...   :unsure:

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@Cad

i'm with you. I just came back, and was surprised that they included Ninja looting and mob stealing as rule violations, but nothing about any of the annoying things miners do.

Both of those 'combat' things seem to fall into the 'working as intended' category, but I guess warriors did a better job complaining about it.

The other thing I've noticed as I catch up, is that some people in the forums are real quick to dismiss anything that doesn't fit into their view of EnB, or if they feel it's been discussed before. Don't take it personal. It's just the way they are.

Now having said all that, the problem I see with the suggestion is 'value' doesn't always correspond to the XP or vendor value. So you might still see some cherry picking.

Best of luck, and enjoy the mining.

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Some cold hard facts to help y'all along:

 

1. "cherry picking" is perfectly legal in the emu

2. "cherry picking" was perfectly legal during live.

3. there is MUCH more available gas/hydros/roids to mine in the emu than there was in live.

4. there is HUGELY more hulks to mine in the emu than there was in live.

5. there are only a fraction of the number of active players on the emu than there were in any of the four "live" servers.

 

Ahh.. that's better.. some perspective at last ;-)

 

Think of "cherry pickers" as the guy who got there first, don't hate 'em for it ;-)

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I think that with the use of multi boxing and virtually no limit to the number of characters one can have makes the "cherry picking" more of an issue.

 

The game costs nothing...having a character that sits in a hulk/asteroid field for the sole purpose of "cherry picking" the best items, log off , log on the next character do the same, for every good field they have found.  Even though the player is most likely really sitting at his/her computer (possibly not ...this could be automated and bots) I don't get it.  But as long as it is not against the rules we have to live with it. 

 

 

In EA live even though it was not against the "rules" it was not as big an issue as it would cost real money for every character played (sort of kept multi-multi-multi characters to a minimum) just to place a character in one spot for the purpose to pull the best from hulks/asteroids,

 

 

As for Krellis's comment "The other thing I've noticed as I catch up, is that some people in the forums are real quick to dismiss anything that doesn't fit into their view of EnB, or if they feel it's been discussed before. Don't take it personal. It's just the way they are."  is mostly true but seriously how many times do I have to get mad about this topic?  I think you will find that MANY miners object to the "cherry pickers" but what can be done about it? 

 

Oh and I bet if there could be something done as the random location of fields, you would see the incidence of cherry picking complaints dwindle.  We would all have a fair shot to get to those fields. the pickers would still pick but not use a character just for picking. 

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I was running jobs to Freya the other night, there was a roid with 3 Disco and some other stuff, I landed almost right inside it every time I warped up there. I purposely cherry picked it to test the despawn thing.

Around 29-30 minutes went by and that roid had despawned. From what I could tell the other roids there were the same, maybe the whole field respawned I dunno.

 

At least the stuff that gets cherry picked will respawn. :)

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 but what can be done about it? 
 
Well, since you asked.   To me, the solution was always simple.  You just eliminate the ability to pick and choose.  Right now I open a roid/hulk and I see everything that is in there and I can 'cherry pick' the items I want.   I can even examine the contents before I get to the roid.  This leaves the 'junk' for someone else to find and complain about darn cherry pickers.
 
Instead you eliminate the popup and associate content list completely.  I click the mine button and whatever is there gets mined and placed in my hull.  If I don't have the hull space the devs could either make the stuff disappears and I never even knew about it, or they could make it float in space with a short decay timer.  If I or someone else doesn't grab it, then it disappears.   Basically you don't know for sure what you're getting until you mine it.  You would still have a general idea based on the roid type, but not the specifics.
 
Yes, someone could still cherry pick the crystal roids, and leave all the hydrocarbons, but I don't think that's the kind of cherry picking most people complain about.

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 Miners are not garbage collectors, most are out there to get needed ores for builds, if anyone has an issue with left overs in roids petition the DEVs to make them despawn faster, 5-10 minutes would be good.

 To mine a lvl 9 ore takes about a second, to mine 50 debris can take up to 5  seconds depending on your skill and devices used, with 5 mobs around you its almost impossible to mine without being interrupted, again, if anyone has an issue, petition the DEVs to either get rid of the mobs, make them not instantly attack a player the second he/she uncloacks or warps to the roid or make debris mine faster.

 Some people think they have the right to dictate to others how to play the game, to them I say, kiss my a**, real life is hard enough, we don't need peeps like you busting our chops, its only a freaking game.

 

 

 

lol, had to clean that up a bit before I get my a** banned   

Edited by Rezwalker
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 Some people think they have the right to dictate to others how to play the game, to them I say, kiss my ass, real life is hard enough, we don't need peeps like you busting our chops, its only a freaking game.   

 Wow!  Words to Freakin' live by!! :lol:

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" Some people think they have the right to dictate to others how to play the game, to them I say, kiss my a**, real life is hard enough, we don't need peeps like you busting our chops, its only a freaking game."

 

 

 

lol, had to clean that up a bit before I get my a** banned   

I think it is more of a ...If you have a toon sitting in a field for the timed re-spawn of the goods, you pull ALL the good stuff and leave the crap over and over and over...isn't that much like what the guilds were fighting over? One group had / has a monopoly on a boss, nothing is left for the other guilds...by your logic...Awww too friggin bad...Sitting in a field and not having to travel, not having to do anything but log in at the exact spot, pull the goods and log off.  Puts you at an advantage that is not fair to other players... Oh wait you claimed it, "I am here it's MINE ALL MINE"......we should stop our whining and let you play the game how YOU want to...we should just buck it up..

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I think it is more of a ...If you have a toon sitting in a field for the timed re-spawn of the goods, you pull ALL the good stuff and leave the crap over and over and over...isn't that much like what the guilds were fighting over? One group had / has a monopoly on a boss, nothing is left for the other guilds...by your logic...Awww too friggin bad...Sitting in a field and not having to travel, not having to do anything but log in at the exact spot, pull the goods and log off.  Puts you at an advantage that is not fair to other players... Oh wait you claimed it, "I am here it's MINE ALL MINE"......we should stop our whining and let you play the game how YOU want to...we should just buck it up..

I have no idea what your rant is about, your taking it beyond the subject of this post and my response that you quoted is only about mining and  cherry picking. 

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Let's define exactly what cherry picking is for those that don't know (not many I'm sure, but let's define it anyway):

 

The removal of only part of the material in some resource node (hulk, hydrocarbon, crystal, gas, radioactive, corpse etc.) and leaving behind whatever you haven't removed to either be discovered by another player and removed by them or to be in turn passed over by them, or, to decay by whatever timer devs have established (despawn).

 

So, you got to the table late and someone else ate all the mash potatoes, gravy and dessert. Darn, you wanted the mashed instead of the pickled beets they left behind....tough, next time get to the table earlier. Forcing the first diner to eat pickled beets that they clearly don't like, simply because someone else is going to be late to the table, isn't a solution. 

 

As to my earlier post, the OP called it a problem, my response boils down to it's not a problem its a annoyance. For a  mere annoyance,  their idea was to alter the normal function of the client and it's normal dynamics to force player behavior into a direction they would prefer. The annoyance is other player behavior, not game function. I say be careful what you wish for, going down that road, namely : altering the game dynamics to suit someones idea of how the game should be played by others, i.e. forced game play, could have serious undesired consequences.

 

For anyone that says they haven't cherry picked, even once.........you are a liar. And if you are saying that others should somehow be disallowed to because you want them to play in a manner you wish them to...you are worse, a hypocrite.

 

I don't make it a practice to go select only the good stuff and leave the undesired stuff behind, I most often clear out a hulk field..those debris have a nice resale value, so do the ammo comps etc! (and like another poster pointed out..if I don't leave a field laying about, others are less likely to know it's location and get the goodies before I get a shot at them :)). But I also will be the first to admit that I have taken something I desired more and left stuff if I was running short on space and there was some drool inducing item right there in front of me. Are you saying you wouldn't jettison some piddling vendor trash to grab some good item if you run across it? If so..I say you lie. I would toss a few curium ore to pick a L8 shield every day of the week, and come on, admit it, you would also.

 

If you were a non-smoker and I locked you in a small space with a chain smoker, that would be a problem, not a annoyance. That is what happens in effect when people wish to change game dynamics to alleviate what is a annoyance to them. You are forcing others to play in your way, not allowing them freedom and choice, not allowing them to leave the smoke clouded room if they so desire.

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As I stated in another post...this is an old topic that can and never will be resolved.  I think cherry pickers are Ass hats, others think hey are playing the way THEY want so i should shut the F up.  Had I cherry picked before this? No...call me what you will, but I did not, Do I cherry pick now? You betcha, unfortunately all I seem to "cherry pick" lately is the trash left behind. ;) 

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According to the Devs, the "resource node"  (hulk/roid/field) will respawn at the same timer interval whether or not they are cherry picked or cleared completely.  If this is true, what difference does it make if something is left behind?

 

You weren't there first so you didn't get what you wanted.  If the hulk was cleared or not, a new one will reappear when the timer dictates.  No one is making YOU clear the debris.  Just pretend that it was completely empty when you got there.

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For anyone that says they haven't cherry picked, even once.........you are a liar.

 

 

 

 

Well Matt,  I've never cherry picked. And I am not a liar. I clear it out, junk and all. Hell, it's free xp or credits. Might as well take all of it.

 

 

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According to the Devs, the "resource node"  (hulk/roid/field) will respawn at the same timer interval whether or not they are cherry picked or cleared completely.  If this is true, what difference does it make if something is left behind?

 

You weren't there first so you didn't get what you wanted.  If the hulk was cleared or not, a new one will reappear when the timer dictates.  No one is making YOU clear the debris.  Just pretend that it was completely empty when you got there.

The question remains...how can I get to a node first (if what you say is true and they re-spawn at a set interval) and someone has his/her toon parked there? By this logic I will NEVER get there first, I will ALWAYS get the leavins. Now if there was a fair chance that said player did other things other than sit there wait for the re-spawn and rape the node, then we the "cherry picker" whiners would happily go off to find something else to whine about.   We just might have a fair chance to get some of the good stuff.  I know...I should let those play the way they want and shut up...but this is the way I want to play...so you shut up. ;)

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I do think, that for the general state of mining, it would be nice if some fields could spawn randomly, as mentioned earlier in thread.  I would not; however, limit that to hulks, probably somewhere around 1/3 of the fields, of all types, spawning in random locations.  I don't know if that is allowed under the client limitations, or if they'd have to have "simulated randomness" by having specific points where a field can spawn, or not, but others won't spawn while the field in question exists.    That would likely require more work on the devs part as they'd have to change those locations from time to time.    It would also give explorers, of all types, more exploring to do since we'd be forever looking for that new orefield.

 

For me the fact cherry picking doesn't affect the spawn rate and that picked things can despawn, pretty much settles the issue on that front.

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...

For me the fact cherry picking doesn't affect the spawn rate and that picked things can despawn, pretty much settles the issue on that front.

 

I was happy ...REALLY I knew I was never going to get any of the good stuff from hulks, and the random AA device I got I snapped up before the dude or dudette got completely in game.  So noooo someone had to pick the scab again, got me all riled up.  The issue is even WITH a re-spawn we who don't sit at the spawn points and either wait...(MY God I have a life) or post an alt at the spawn point never get anything but the crumbs.  EVEN WITH the re-spawn of the fields.  

 

So the answer is to compete for the choice drops you MUST create a character that will only be a "choice looter" pop that bad boy in place, wait for the spawn...jot down the time and place, try to pull something before the other guy, log off and return a few minutes before the spawn occurs.  I guess this is fair.  Personally I won't do it but others might.

 

Let me know how it goes for you.

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I was happy ...REALLY I knew I was never going to get any of the good stuff from hulks, and the random AA device I got I snapped up before the dude or dudette got completely in game.  So noooo someone had to pick the scab again, got me all riled up.  The issue is even WITH a re-spawn we who don't sit at the spawn points and either wait...(MY God I have a life) or post an alt at the spawn point never get anything but the crumbs.  EVEN WITH the re-spawn of the fields.  

 

So the answer is to compete for the choice drops you MUST create a character that will only be a "choice looter" pop that bad boy in place, wait for the spawn...jot down the time and place, try to pull something before the other guy, log off and return a few minutes before the spawn occurs.  I guess this is fair.  Personally I won't do it but others might.

 

Let me know how it goes for you.

 

I have several explorer characters, but I really only play 2 of them fairly regularly, my JE Terrell, and my Terran Explorer Torrie.  I don't have characters waiting at spawn points looking for specific fields.   My other explorers, Terrwyn (JE), Toria (PE), & Terence (JE) don't get much play by comparison.   I'm all for more fields to find, and even if possible random field locations for a percentage of the fields (random fields tending to be more lucrative than static fields of the same level).  I don't begrudge the right of explorers to not clear fields if they don't want to, personally I prefer to strip mine, though cargo limitations sometimes require me to focus on one type of resource.  I'd like also to see future missions & projects using the Mars Construction Project, Heal the Maelstrom, and Lyle McDonald's mission chain as outlines for future missions.  (The missions & projects mentioned at appropriate storyline times, and other missions and projects designed based on the way those missions worked)

 

I do think that hulks being randomly distributed into normal fields, with fewer all hulk fields would work, as an alternative.  I don't know; however, how well that would go over in the community, especially with the various turn ins associated with hulks.  Mah-Jongg tiles, 1/2 eaten space suits, leaky power cells, etc.   I think that if it means roughly the same amount of hulks, but with more finding required, it might work.  Not sure though.

 

AAs can also appear in asteroids, and I've already found 2 playing relatively casually.  Posted the screenshots of the artifacts after they were analyzed here.   AAs are supposed to be somewhat rare, but the devs would have to comment for us to know exactly how rare they're intended to be.

 

To be honest I'm more concerned with mining based content, than if some explorers don't wish to strip mine.  I'll gladly collect the credits from all the debris I can find, though I do admit there are some situations where it's just too dangerous.  If the field that is in Paramis near where Blackbeard's Ghost spawns still exists pretty much any explorer who wants to get out of there with their skin, will likely just grab the most valuable things they can get to, then make a quick escape.  (my explorers cannot access Smuggler's Run yet, but they'll eventually get there)   The mobs there can quickly tear a lone explorer apart and most of us don't want to have to bring a task force to mine, and I doubt that the warriors will agree, unless the items dropped are of enough value to justify their time & ammo costs.

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While there are times cherry picking can annoy Mr when I want something specific and need it badly to finish an item etc and arrive 5 min to late behind someone else that's MY problem and from an unbiased stand point I see no prob with it. I hate finding empty hulks sometimes to but its so easy to spam the D key and click the window simultaneously and look for what I need then warp to it. This game is so ez mode I wouldn't want it to be an easier than it already is. If something HAD to change I would say lower the respawn time on "picked roids" by 5-10 min but that would be it and even that isn't really necessary IMO.

I mine 4 Hrs A DAY more than most and I have zero issues grief or drama with the cherry picking thing and I am a hardcore miner.

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I guess the reason I did a "Ohhh nooo not this damn discussion again" was that (a.) It will never get resolved, (b.) there are some of us that see it as a real issue, and (c). there are the posters that think it is just fine and dandy the way it is.  If anyone has the time do a look at the prior discussions.  This IS like deja vu all over again.

 

The new twist for me was the "I'm playing the game the way I want so lump it" post...  Sadly that attitude prevents me from playing the game the way I want to. I surely don't want a Hello Kitty style game where everyone wins, but I would like a fair shake.  Not too much to ask for when you think about it.   

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The question remains...how can I get to a node first (if what you say is true and they re-spawn at a set interval) and someone has his/her toon parked there? By this logic I will NEVER get there first, I will ALWAYS get the leavins. Now if there was a fair chance that said player did other things other than sit there wait for the re-spawn and rape the node, then we the "cherry picker" whiners would happily go off to find something else to whine about.   We just might have a fair chance to get some of the good stuff.  I know...I should let those play the way they want and shut up...but this is the way I want to play...so you shut up. ;)

 

 

I was not replying to your off topic post about players leaving a toon parked at a node.  I have no idea what to do about that.

 

I was replying to the cherry-picking post.  The one about players taking some loot and leaving the less desirable items.

 

And, I have NEVER told anyone to shut up on any forum.  It is very discourteous and beside, I LOVE to argue... I mean discuss issues.  :D

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This kind of thing comes up over and over again, the core issue is not specific to cherry picking.  Different people want different things from the game.

 

Some have the time and flexibility to camp timed spawns, make sure they get there first, often not realizing that by doing so they are inherently preventing others from playing the game how they want.  Like with rare spawns and non instanced boss fights, the first group of players adopt the attitude that if players want to access this content they should force their way into first place like they did.

 

This "get there first" approach may to some be the definition of PvE, but there are others, who may want to in groups or guilds compete cooperatively with the environment, without also having to compete against other players in order to do so, often other players who have more time to play or a more flexible schedule.  With games of this model it can become a "lack of real life" arms race.

 

I do not believe either party to be wrong, they just want different things.  In live people pretty much had to just get over it, although there was a marked difference in how different servers handled things.  What I do find frustrating is people getting all worked up saying "This is how the game is, it is what I am doing so it is the only way, and it will stay like this, opinions that it may be better some other way are just invalid and we should never talk about it".  With the emulator some things could be changed, if the community wanted it.

 

Maybe some people have seen this topic over and over, but you can tell from the title what it is, if it pisses you off do not read it.  On pretty much any forum topic there is a "Yes" camp and a "No" camp then this repeated, trollic presence of "We should not even have the discussion, I have been here for years and have seen it five times, you should read all of the 5000 previous posts on this site before you dare talk to me!".

 

Surely it is in the best interest of the whole project for it to do what most players are happy with.  It may be that most players want a "get there first" open world, with static spawn times they can try to fight over and monopolize.  But without talking about it here the community will not find out.  The arrogance of some saying "STFU! just want the same things as me and that is the end of it".

 

Think of this, if you are in the "get there first" camp.  Would it actually bother you that someone else gets a piece of loot from a boss in a parallel instance, or otherwise gets more easily enabled access to some resource, not having to ensure they log on at the right time to get it first?  I mean if certain resources were made that, it takes some time to get them, on average the same time investment per player, but you do not have to race others to get it first or not at all.  Is it getting things which others miss out on because you got it first which actually makes you enjoy the game?  Does it really make you feel better about the size of your penis?

 

That is one thing WoW did get right.  You and your guild could tackle the content when and how you wanted to, without interfering with anyone else ability to do so, in PvE.  Why some people bring things up, like the original poster here is that they see the potential for a game they might enjoy, but the actions of others are preventing it.  Actions enabled by the way the game is configured, but it may be possible to configure the game a different way such that everyone can play the content they wish to play.

 

You have your right to say you want the game to exist in a certain way.  But telling others they cannot say (to the community and the dev team) how they think it would be better makes you an asshole.  I expect this to be flamed/trolled to hell, denounced as being of topic, not related to cherry picking, but greedy, arrogant people, who would not dare speak like they do online if they met someone in person, strutting about and puffing their chests out is what kills MMOs for a lot of people and is the core issue in pretty much any discussion of game mechanic.  If other players are a part of the experience you want to play with people you actually want to spend some time with.

 

Content how you want it + players you want to play with = Good MMO

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