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Cherry Picking


Yuritau

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I went ahead and merged this thread with an old cherry picking thread.

 

As far as this subject goes, there are two main thoughts - those who think cherry picking should be disallowed, and those who feel you should mine what you want.  I don't see that changing, and don't see a real way to meet in the middle.  The despawn timers are already there, and I think that reducing the time to despawn a roid might just increase the chance they sit and wait, not to mention making turnover of roids higher and possibly increasing the ore availability.   At least those sought after.  Other than changing that, I'm not sure of something that would allow you to mine what you want, while still leave ores available to others that wouldn't potentially unbalance the game.

I do know that I was out searching for a specific ore or two, and after traveling to several fields in various systems, I had very little to show for it.  Did I come across picked fields?  Was I just looking for ore that was that rare?  Couldn't tell ya, but it was a bit frustrating trying to help someone out by mining for the ore.

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There are solutions beyond just ban the cherry pickers.

 

Vary the fields...if X spot always spawns the same field, then that will allow camping and picking. Yes power gamers will always try to figure things out so that they can own all of the best, and yes in some ways this is the nature of a PvE game. Somebody always has to be the best, and it is never going to be me because I do not have the time to dedicate to a game in that manner. However, if you vary the spawn points (not every day, but perhaps at every server reset) it will certainly make the game alot more challenging. This does not have to happen just for roids, shake up the way that mobs spawn too, solve the camping issue. Yes power gamers will still probably find the mob first and kill them, but at least you are giving the rest of us a chance.

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I think it would be better to deal with the cherry picking problem by rewarding the cleaners rather than punishing the cherry pickers. I'm not sure how the respawn timers work, but my preferred way of doing this is would be to have at least two respawn timers. One timer would starts when the first piece of ore is picked in a field and respawn the field if the field is cleared. This would reward someone who cleans up a field that was cherry picked a some time ago with a fresh field almost instantly upon cleaning up the old one. 
The other timer would be a longer timer that is reset each time someone picks something from the field, respawning the entire cherry picked field if it has not been touch in a long time.
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I think it would be better to deal with the cherry picking problem by rewarding the cleaners rather than punishing the cherry pickers. I'm not sure how the respawn timers work, but my preferred way of doing this is would be to have at least two respawn timers. One timer would starts when the first piece of ore is picked in a field and respawn the field if the field is cleared. This would reward someone who cleans up a field that was cherry picked a some time ago with a fresh field almost instantly upon cleaning up the old one. 
The other timer would be a longer timer that is reset each time someone picks something from the field, respawning the entire cherry picked field if it has not been touch in a long time.

 

I like it...any other thoughts either pro or con? 

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According to the Devs, the "resource node"  (hulk/roid/field) will respawn at the same timer interval whether or not they are cherry picked or cleared completely.  If this is true, what difference does it make if something is left behind?

 

 

 

I think this ends the conversation for now. Since everything respawns anyway, I would think that the devs have more pressing matters to deal with than change something that actually works in game.

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Sure, but if a solution can be created that makes everyone happier wouldn't that be better?  Assuming there are no balance issues, I think it would be nice for the players to say here's a solution we went over and would like to propose to you.

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I think it would be better to deal with the cherry picking problem by rewarding the cleaners rather than punishing the cherry pickers. I'm not sure how the respawn timers work, but my preferred way of doing this is would be to have at least two respawn timers. One timer would starts when the first piece of ore is picked in a field and respawn the field if the field is cleared. This would reward someone who cleans up a field that was cherry picked a some time ago with a fresh field almost instantly upon cleaning up the old one. 
The other timer would be a longer timer that is reset each time someone picks something from the field, respawning the entire cherry picked field if it has not been touch in a long time.

 

I like the concept but, what would keep a player or group of players from clearing the 5 hulks in the field, getting a quick re-spawn and repeating indefinitely?

 

Maybe this only happens if the first timer is more than half timed out???  Still, this could end up being a way to cut the timer in half if you are camping the field...

Edited by GenghisBob
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Cherry picking has been around and complained about since early on in live.

 

The only solution I can think of is a timer per field that causes the field to despawn if since the last roid was mined a certain time has passed. I doubt anything will be more than said as "working as intended"

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I like the concept but, what would keep a player or group of players from clearing the 5 hulks in the field, getting a quick re-spawn and repeating indefinitely?

 

Maybe this only happens if the first timer is more than half timed out???  Still, this could end up being a way to cut the timer in half if you are camping the field...

 

Repetition would not be an issue. You only get the quick respawn the first time because the timer was started by the cherrypicker and the timer ran out while waiting for a cleaner to come clear the field. If you clear a fresh spawn in one go, you won't get a quick respawn since there won't be a time gap between the time of the cherry-picking and the cleaning allowing the timer to run out,

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Repetition would not be an issue. You only get the quick respawn the first time because the timer was started by the cherrypicker and the timer ran out while waiting for a cleaner to come clear the field. If you clear a fresh spawn in one go, you won't get a quick respawn since there won't be a time gap between the time of the cherry-picking and the cleaning allowing the timer to run out,

What would be the 'time gap' that would determine whether the 'cherry-picker' was still there or a 'cleaner' was there? 

 

Say the normal re-spawn time, after the cherries were picked, was 2 hours.  How long before a 'cleaner' could expect a quick re-spawn?  One hour?  Could not a second 'toon of the cherry-picker wait for that amount of time and then be guaranteed and instant re-spawn?  Who would know better when the second timer started?

 

Like I said earlier, this would be great if you could get it to work the way you stated.  I just don't see how you could make sure the same person was not both players.

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What would be the 'time gap' that would determine whether the 'cherry-picker' was still there or a 'cleaner' was there? 

 

Say the normal re-spawn time, after the cherries were picked, was 2 hours.  How long before a 'cleaner' could expect a quick re-spawn?  One hour?  Could not a second 'toon of the cherry-picker wait for that amount of time and then be guaranteed and instant re-spawn?  Who would know better when the second timer started?

 

Like I said earlier, this would be great if you could get it to work the way you stated.  I just don't see how you could make sure the same person was not both players.

I would start with the normal respawn time. As far as I'm concerned, It wouldn't really matter if it was the cherry picker or someone else who cleaned up. The field would respawn at the same time regardless, and if the cherry picker cleans up after himself, although late, he's not really a cherry picker anymore. The difference between the way I think it works now and the way I proposed is when the timer starts counting. At present I think it starts when the field is cleared. My suggestion was to start the timer when the field is touched for the first time instead.

 

I'm not sure it how it works now though. Since I've seen fields starting to refill before I've finished clearing them, There could be some per-roid timer instead/as well.

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I would start with the normal respawn time. As far as I'm concerned, It wouldn't really matter if it was the cherry picker or someone else who cleaned up. The field would respawn at the same time regardless, and if the cherry picker cleans up after himself, although late, he's not really a cherry picker anymore. The difference between the way I think it works now and the way I proposed is when the timer starts counting. At present I think it starts when the field is cleared. My suggestion was to start the timer when the field is touched for the first time instead.

 

I'm not sure it how it works now though. Since I've seen fields starting to refill before I've finished clearing them, There could be some per-roid timer instead/as well.

How true... if a cherry picker cleans the field he/she is no longer a cherry picker and the whole thing is resolved.  Sounds like a win win to me.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Individual roids respawn within a field if the roid is CLEARED... Just because one roid was "picked" does not stop it from spawning until every last roid the field is removed...

 

What does cause problems is when there are 2 junk ores in a roid and one good one... cherry picker takes the good one and leaves the rest... So it is easy to fix....

 

When a roid has an ore removed, it should count town a respawn timer just like one that has been emptied... then when it timer expires the roid self-destructs.. then respawns on a normal cycle..

 

Other possible solution, but will make ores harder to gather... one ore/item per roid/hulk.. eliminate the "Debris (50)" I see in many L8 and 9 hulks because it is a pain to sit there while your maxed Prospect and devices takes an eternity to extract the pile of debris only to be discarded into space... This causes people who are pulling hulks in a hazardous area to leave the debris, even if they want to clear the roid they can't because they will get hit in the process and stop the prospect... If the hulk would "Clean" itself after the "good" item is removed.. problem solved... if the only thing in there is a small slag (5) or Landing Strut (4) or an item and the roid is cleared, then problem solved..

 

Cherry picking is caused by lazy miners or miners looking for specific things... If I am after 3 Aesirium just to get a build done I am not going to clear an entire field for that... If I am looking for 5 Gold I am probably not going to clear the entire L5 roid either... I'll find the roid, get what I want and warp out...

 

Only when prospecting for stockpiling or XP do you see people clearing entire fields... My 2 bits on this dead horse..

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Individual roids respawn within a field if the roid is CLEARED... Just because one roid was "picked" does not stop it from spawning until every last roid the field is removed...

 

What does cause problems is when there are 2 junk ores in a roid and one good one... cherry picker takes the good one and leaves the rest... So it is easy to fix....

 

When a roid has an ore removed, it should count town a respawn timer just like one that has been emptied... then when it timer expires the roid self-destructs.. then respawns on a normal cycle..

 

Other possible solution, but will make ores harder to gather... one ore/item per roid/hulk.. eliminate the "Debris (50)" I see in many L8 and 9 hulks because it is a pain to sit there while your maxed Prospect and devices takes an eternity to extract the pile of debris only to be discarded into space... This causes people who are pulling hulks in a hazardous area to leave the debris, even if they want to clear the roid they can't because they will get hit in the process and stop the prospect... If the hulk would "Clean" itself after the "good" item is removed.. problem solved... if the only thing in there is a small slag (5) or Landing Strut (4) or an item and the roid is cleared, then problem solved..

 

Cherry picking is caused by lazy miners or miners looking for specific things... If I am after 3 Aesirium just to get a build done I am not going to clear an entire field for that... If I am looking for 5 Gold I am probably not going to clear the entire L5 roid either... I'll find the roid, get what I want and warp out...

 

Only when prospecting for stockpiling or XP do you see people clearing entire fields... My 2 bits on this dead horse..

Good points ALL.  And I admit now that I don't even bother to clear a field anymore.  I have gone to the dark side (they have cookies) and will cherry pick with the best of them.  

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1. Maybe make a ship incapacitated if cherry picking is detected.

2. Explodeing Hulks just like the game battleship you take your chances when hulking.

Hey!, whoever said space was safe! just a thought. ;)

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

So I see that no one has been complaining about my particular brand of cherry picking. :P

 

Until very recently my JE didn't have enough reactor cap to pull L9 stuffs, so I was having to cherry pick the L1-L8 stuffs!

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Checks the horse. It has stopped breathing. Hangs another clothesline for the crying towels. Time to let this complaint go.

 

Camping roid/hulk fields is no different than camping mobs for the valuable gear. Keep trying, maybe you'll get lucky and get there when it's not camped and find what you want.

 

If the devs don't/won't make a few changes like less junk or random timers/drop locations, then it must be the way they want it to function.

Edited by cpwings
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So I see that no one has been complaining about my particular brand of cherry picking. :P

 

Until very recently my JE didn't have enough reactor cap to pull L9 stuffs, so I was having to cherry pick the L1-L8 stuffs!

 

To my way of thinking there really isn't anything wrong with this..

 

1. you don't get the field clear bonus because you didn't clear the field.. that's on you...

2. the prospected roids will repop normally if you empty them...

3. The L9 ores are more valuable and those are often the ones people want to find, you are leaving the good stuff for someone else..

 

We've all been low-level prospectors and had to leave roids with ore in them we just can't pull at one time or another.. It is part of growing up for a prospector. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

name and shame message left on cherry picked hulks that have been left 10+ minutes make them respawn after a short while

Could I get that in a persist mode? I would like a general chat post and a little neon sign saying my name right were I cherry picked.

 

Like this:   Mattsacre Cherry Picked on this location at 9.10.13.

 

Maybe even state what I left behind for good measure: Mattsacre cherry Picked on this location (x,y,z) @ 9.10.13 and left 21 debris.

 

Can I get that? Make it persist for say 30 days...I'd log on and Pick there every 30 days just to make a point, I would find the memorium real exceptional and a badge of honor. :wub:

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I just finished the lvl135 HU'd with my TS. It requires you have a device built that means you have to purchase a lvl8 comp, loot a particular item from a lvl50 Mob, mine a lvl8 ore and a lvl9 ore. Did I bother to clear the entire fields? Of course not. Does that make me a Cherrypicker?  I know there are other missions that require mining a particular ore. Are those players Cherrypickers? My point is there may be a legit reason so stop with the sour grapes.

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