Asteroid Nerf question?

[Jamosite]

I was wondering why ore was downsized. I realize some spots that were created for groups were exploited by AFK botters but it seems every major ore

Field that was in game before the new stuff and even the older post live ore fields have been downsized, are we trying to make ore rare or was this

a way to combat Botters?

I ask because I made a TS just for the occasion of the cool new ore fields and some old ones i'd never seen before but it seems across the board

fields are now downsized rendering the idea of starting a group mining even useless and even the thought of deleting my new TS.

[wogboard3]

yea I noticed that in Glenn where there are normally plenty of gas downsized to about 20%

[Mimir[IS]]

yea I noticed that in Glenn where there are normally plenty of gas downsized to about 20%

And let's not forget the mobs are also decreased in numbers. Not sure what is going on here. But it is getting harder and harder to find any reason to play. No Mobs...so no problemo I'll switch to a miner, no ores...oops no mobs and no ores, guess I can always explore... but then what?

If this is a way to combat botters then all I have to say is that it is the most lame idea I have ever heard of. The botters don't care if the number of ores and mobs are decreased...they don't even notice it.

THEY ARE NOT AT THEIR MONITORs!

Another knee jerk reaction... Punish everyone for the actions of a few. And if you read the other forum posts some of the Devs dont think botting is all that bad.

Edited November 29, 2010 by Mimir

[r8rsfans75]

And let's not forget the mobs are also decreased in numbers. Not sure what is going on here. But it is getting harder and harder to find any reason to play. No Mobs...so no problemo I'll switch to a miner, no ores...oops no mobs and no ores, guess I can always explore... but then what?

Well then you do a progen mission...oh wait...stuck on that too.

[Davidr99 [Admin]]

We have found that in some place in the game ore was over abundant with "unclearable" fields. These fields are game breaking and making the economy completely unbalanced. Last night we did a temp fix to make the fields have less ores. When we release the December patch we will be fixing the ore fields. This is not permanent just temporary quick fix. Mobs were not changed at all with this patch.

Thanks,

David

[fuulishone]

@David

Thanks very much for the official word. Much appreciated.

Can you comment on the hulk situation as well? Right now there seems to be L1 Debris added to the hulk pull list, which naturally makes other items more rare. Was this also part of the temporary fix?

[Davidr99 [Admin]]

We did not repopulate any areas, so that means the drops were not changed. I know at one time hulks were not working properly so they are still being fixed. I am not sure what they drop at this time.

Thanks,

David

[Jamosite]

We have found that in some place in the game ore was over abundant with "unclearable" fields. These fields are game breaking and making the economy completely unbalanced. Last night we did a temp fix to make the fields have less ores. When we release the December patch we will be fixing the ore fields. This is not permanent just temporary quick fix. Mobs were not changed at all with this patch.

Thanks,

David

We assumed some of the unclearable fields were an attempt to have us group to do some mining, it worked if that was the case. Our guild as well as a

few others basically would go on a ore spree. I ask you to bring this back. Mining was so good that it sparked many people in and out of our guild

to have there very first miners. it was more for the xp and less for the cash and abundance. I do not speak for most but i do speak for quite a bit

when I say please revert it to the way it was but add guardians in the areas. the xp was wonderful and you gained it about the same way you would

run mindless jobs. but instead of running mindless jobs, we all as a group got together and mined to our hearts content.

Think of some other way to fix the game economy, but please leave the ore alone. even if you have to lower the value to the vendor or what not I am

sure that it would be O.k. with most in the game.. its more about the thrill of grouping in a big mining group and everyone getting ample xp but

also doing there share. (this brings me back to the whole idea of guardians).

I understand it was temporary but i want to state my case clearly for the final "fix" Even if you have to revert the ore to trash ore but keep

the same type as it was.

it was worth working on a field for an hour or two with a few max miners and some underlings to have a few field clear bonuses.

one final thought, throw out that awful Progen mission were you need a universe full of ore, its not worth it. ( my personal opinion)

[Terrell [BT]]

If orefields are guarded to get JEs to group, don't forget to make the guardians' drops worth the warriors time and ammo to show up, otherwise they'll hunt elsewhere. If they're going to be guarded with manes they aren't worth warriors' time & ammo to guard Explorers unless the Manes' drops are going to be substantially improved over the occasional Manes' essence.

[fuulishone]

If orefields are guarded to get JEs to group, don't forget to make the guardians' drops worth the warriors time and ammo to show up, otherwise they'll hunt elsewhere. If they're going to be guarded with manes they aren't worth warriors' time & ammo to guard Explorers unless the Manes' drops are going to be substantially improved over the occasional Manes' essence.

Consider including the entire group in the field clear bonus as an added incentive for the combat support.

[Davidr99 [Admin]]

We will be doing things with the fields, but the fields that were out there made ore useless. We may add back areas similar (not as many roids) but would need a group to mine it because of mobs. I have seen many macro miners sitting at these spots and using them to simply level to 150 without having to do anything.

[Nexeo]

Why not ban those miners? they know its illegal, they know they ruin the game for others, they know its wrong, i would love to see a MMo where the first time offence with macros, was a perm ban! that will make those ppl think twice before they start botting!.

[Terrell [BT]]

Consider including the entire group in the field clear bonus as an added incentive for the combat support.

I think that will help, but I also think that whatever loot the mobs drop, must be sufficent when vendored to pay for the ammo the warrior used to kill the mob. In addition if the warrior can make more cash, particularily after 150, by going to Cooper or Antares, or when they're open Ardus or der Todesengel, the warriors will be there, not guarding miners.

To be sure I'd like to know how much XP per hour can a full group of mostly warriors and a TT earn in combat and Trade XP hunting 55 ish mobs in Antares or Cooper, vs Explore & Combat XP per hour killing orefield guardian mobs, with a mixed group of Combatants & Miners when the warriors kill the guardians (CL48-CL56) and the miners mine L8+ ores. If those numbers clearly favor taking a full group of of 5 Warriors & 1 TT, I think that the warriors will choose that route, as it pays better, than guarding miners. At lower levels the warriors, may be more willing to kill guardian mobs, especially the JW (Max cloak requires EL25, Max Scan/Fold Space EL45) because of the need to raise Explore XP, particularily if they're not fans of touring or the Job Terminal.

What I think is more likely to happen, is that the groups of players in the orefields are explorer classes, with at least 1 or 2 Sentinels to spend some time providing cover while mining, when not shoorting. For a Sentinel it might be worth his time, since he can prospect, at least as far as high level mining is concerned.

[r8rsfans75]

We will be doing things with the fields, but the fields that were out there made ore useless. We may add back areas similar (not as many roids) but would need a group to mine it because of mobs. I have seen many macro miners sitting at these spots and using them to simply level to 150 without having to do anything.

Another case of a very small portion of the community ruining the game for everyone else. Besides, if this is the way that someone wants to level themselves to 150, more power to them, there is a lot to do in the game on the way to 150 that I prefer doing. Missing out on the field clear bonus because of a macro miner is not going to ruin my day. The economy is already messed up beyond repair, nerfing the roids now is not going to change the fact that people out there already have over a billion credits.

[Jamosite]

We will be doing things with the fields, but the fields that were out there made ore useless. We may add back areas similar (not as many roids) but would need a group to mine it because of mobs. I have seen many macro miners sitting at these spots and using them to simply level to 150 without having to do anything.

Lets put this another way. The game Economy was already put to the test with all of the glitch drops, and other things. That being said.

Some ore spots that us old heads remember from live, hidden and hard to find spots. were basically destroyed. these are the spots most of us want

fixed. I understand that the fields were probably all downsized with an easy step and it wasnt the fact that some one went from field to field in

the game , but, most of us play this game to relax, to get away from the bustel of daily life. This isnt EVE, were you have treat it as a job.

most who left after EnB shut down went to eve and disposed it, didn't last more then a few weeks. was forced to spend time with there :wait for it:

Families! AAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaHH!

That being said, Macro miners are on my hate list as well, if you put the ore fields back the way they were, add guardians that will target

players that do not belong everything will be fine. besides, i don't see it as a problem you trying to level up a few smaller friends if there is

some one there to protect them, everyone will reap the benefits. I am pretty sure most mines in the real world have security posted .

You said you've seen people level themselves to 150? this must have been going on for a while because 90 percent of us in the guild I am in just

discovered it and just as everything, it was ripped away because some people decided to exploit it. The type of mining in Glenn and New Edinsburg

was supposed to be for people at LVL 150 or close to it, at least that is what we thought. A group event, sure people smaller could go but mostly

the higher lvl miners went to gain some ore, make a few credits, and get some post 150 skill points. its tough that it went from fair mining, to

good mining then to straight PUNISHMENT mining.

----

Warriors gain XP fighting, they may do the occasional job and if they are crazy, fly around the universe trying to find every ? nav.

Most roll over there combat xp to explore and to a lesser extent trade. Miners get there skills by mining, now that its become useless why would

anyone want to have a grueling time to mine? do they want to have the small amount resources that are in high demand? are we promoting price

gouging? ( i don't remember ore being like that in live only things that Ea decided to have a select few acquire and map)

simple solution, replace the mining the way it was , tweak it slightly, make the ore worth less if you have to , make more "trash ore" if you have to

make sure its good xp, make sure its a group event, have some areas and pockets for people who like to solo and add guardians, add cool guardians

with there own version of loot, may it be trash or things of value , to keep the warrior cast interested in defending.

We want are mining community back.

.

I am passionate about this because I like to play primarily warrior classes, just as this great mining event came to pass it seems like its being taken away and probably being replaced with something that will turn most away from being a miner.

with much respect. please consider my words

JaM~

[Rezwalker]

We will be doing things with the fields, but the fields that were out there made ore useless. We may add back areas similar (not as many roids) but would need a group to mine it because of mobs. I have seen many macro miners sitting at these spots and using them to simply level to 150 without having to do anything.

It's obvious that you don't play the game my friend, we level our toons with the ammo comps in the FB and not mining forever to lvl 150, the large fields in question are not worth macro mining because a macro would never mine fast enough to get the large bonus from clearing in 99% of the fields.

Ore hoarding on the other hand, after refining and trade to another player will help lvl, with spillover TL to EL and CL for a miner much faster than explore will so if we need a nerf, less ore in the roids will do the trick.

Personally I mine to get away from the crowd, relax and enjoy my solo moments and will not appreciate a couple of lvl 66 beasts chasing me down or a bunch of warriors having to babysit me and pollute my environment with 40 projectiles a second whooshing by my head to kill said beast.

Pop roids are acceptable if implemented and at the correct lvl as it was in live will not bother me a bit.

PS: went to a few spots today and mined the 20-30 roids that where there and got like 6 field clearing bonuses, I'm sure that was not the DEVs

intentions and will expect a correction soon.

[Marlee]

The change to the ore fields that went in over the weekend is really unacceptable. we understand there was a lot of ore out there, but that made playing a miner fun.

Now with so few asteroids, you are making it a necessity to run jobs for explore exp. Which is extraordinarliy boring, (probably additional missions need to be added to bridge the explore gap, but that is another topic).

Also mining for 10 roids in a field is not fun either when it used to be 50.

I agree that you can take out the uber fields like shadow point and redemption but the main fields need to stay.

The large "unclearable" fields are actually good imo. It is not gamebreaking in the least, especially as you know beforehand you probably wont be able to clear it in time to get a bonus. That being said it encourages group mining as Jam pointed out.

Mining is supposed to be fun, and it isn't after this change. I have 2 main toon that are explorers and I really was enjoying the mining aspect as it was.

And yes AFK macroers need to be banned, but please make sure they are macroing and not just sitting there AFK doing nothing. I will often leave a toon out in a field if I am alt tabbed to another toon. But it is idle and not macroing.

Macroing is cheating and not allowed.

--Nimue

[Terrell [BT]]

Personally I mine to get away from the crowd, relax and enjoy my solo moments and will not appreciate a couple of lvl 66 beasts chasing me down or a bunch of warriors having to babysit me and pollute my environment with 40 projectiles a second whooshing by my head to kill said beast.

I have to agree that there shouldn't be L66 anything guarding the orefields. While I'm not opposed to orefield guardians, I think that most of them are going to be fought by Explorers, Sentinels, or Scouts, and should be of such a nature that they can be dealt with by solo miners in one on one fights. Of course between the 3 explorers the Sentinel would be best at killing them, the Scout in-between, and the JE having the most difficulty. It should not be impossible; however, for an explorer to deal with an orefield guardian in most cases.

If you want explorer warrior teams in orefields, at high levels, the guardians have to pay the warriors sufficently for killing them (in terms of XP and loot), and the orefield should probably be almost all L9 ores, and hulks. On hulks, whether they have "junk" loot, ores, or items, they should have items of the same level as their level, give or take 1 level. L2 debris/wreckage should not be on hulks higher than L3. This had been improved with things like the tiles, landing struts, as well as the spacesuits (the space suits should stay IMO, those are great for hulks). It's annoying to an explorer to find L2 items in L8 hulks, with no L7+ items in it. It effectively means that the hulk labeled L8 is really L2 or L3.

[r8rsfans75]

It's annoying to an explorer to find L2 items in L8 hulks, with no L7+ items in it. It effectively means that the hulk labeled L8 is really L2 or L3.

I would rather have a hulk that contains nothing but goes poof rather then finding a lvl 2 item in a lvl 7 or 8 hulk. Two bonuses there. 1. You don't have to bother cluttering your hold with useless crap just so you can clear the field. 2. Cherry pickers won't leave a dozen or more hulks around that have nothing but lvl 2 garbage in them.

[Dalgothe]

Well here's a situation you may not have thought of.

I took the mission with the Terran side in 61 Cygni,my task ? He wants 10 stacks of Rainbow Silicon.That works out to 3600 individual pieces of Charons Dust.It took me 5 days of constant mining to collect just half,simply because the fields are so sparse of that ore.

The 3 good fields that I did find,in 3 different sectors,would give 30-50 per clear field.

Now they give 8-10 per clear field.So do the math,that means I have another 15 days to get the rest just to finish one mission.

Just admit a mistake was made and put it back the way it was.

[Poohba]

I think we need more mobs near the ore fields like we did in live. Encourage groups of combat/miner teams to share their xp. Half the group xp possibly to discourage power-leveling if that's something you want to discourage. Plenty of things to do but don't take away the roids, it's what explorers do. We mine. Hope the changes don't last long, cause there's no point in trying to mine much now, from what I can see.

And for sure find a way to callout botters, they ruin the game for everyone. Half the money, or xp on ore trade in if neccessary. I don't think it is but I love mining the big circles whatever the xp/rewards are.

[r8rsfans75]

Well here's a situation you may not have thought of.

I took the mission with the Terran side in 61 Cygni,my task ? He wants 10 stacks of Rainbow Silicon.That works out to 3600 individual pieces of Charons Dust.It took me 5 days of constant mining to collect just half,simply because the fields are so sparse of that ore.

The 3 good fields that I did find,in 3 different sectors,would give 30-50 per clear field.

Now they give 8-10 per clear field.So do the math,that means I have another 15 days to get the rest just to finish one mission.

Just admit a mistake was made and put it back the way it was.

Do you have a comp builder or did you ask in market channel for someone to break down the comps that provide Rainbow Silicon? May take awhile to break down enough to get you 600 of them, but certainly won't take as long as trying to mine that much Charons Dust.

However I agree with your point, if the amount of available ores have been decreased, than anything that requires a certain number of ores to complete (missions, builds, etc) should be decreased accordingly.

[Kyp [LDEV]]

Guys guys guys,

Let's put this into perspective, it is a temporary change while we audit the existing fields. We know what they were all set to, we pulled a report, but you have to understand there were some fields that were in places that they should not have been, were not in live, and that had well over 300 individual roids that spawned in 30 minutes or less, I certainly never found any spot in live where there were 300 roids in less than 1k of diameter, and I'd say if we were to ask the original devs of Westwood they would balk at such an idea. This leads to an unclearable field, we watched these fields and it certainly seemed that only some people knew about them.

I know full well that there were no fields in live that resembled small planetary bodies because the asteroids were packed so close together, yet we found them in very hidden places, if anyone can PROVE otherwise then I might be inclined to accept this, but I know better. What you're seeing is an across the board solution while we assess the situation. There was very very obviously some abuse, and it wasn't on your part but that of someone given the power to do this stuff or so it appears. You should always have to move some to mine, and there should always be guardians in fields of this type but neither was true. You could sit in one spot, and nothing at all would attack you while you mined to your heart's content.

We do realize that not all the fields were like this and where they were reasonable we do intend to restore them where possible. We will make it fun, without handing the economy to you on a silver platter such as these fields were to certain people who knew where the navs were. The way this was it completely devalued the work of miners, the market could have been flooded easily.

[nimr0dbbow[IS]]

Come to my ore fields...

They have their own guardians for you to kill for the rights to loot them...

[r8rsfans75]

Guys guys guys,

Let's put this into perspective, it is a temporary change while we audit the existing fields. We know what they were all set to, we pulled a report, but you have to understand there were some fields that were in places that they should not have been, were not in live, and that had well over 300 individual roids that spawned in 30 minutes or less, I certainly never found any spot in live where there were 300 roids in less than 1k of diameter, and I'd say if we were to ask the original devs of Westwood they would balk at such an idea. This leads to an unclearable field, we watched these fields and it certainly seemed that only some people knew about them.

Couple of questions. How long is "temporary"? Could the audit have taken place first and then nerf the questionable fields instead of nerfing all the fields? (if these fields have been in there for a while a couple more days wouldn't kill the "economy", what would really kill the economy is the issue with expensive ammo)