Kiting Live vs. Now

[bondct]

as previously posted... in live there were more mobs and you had to clear the edges of the fields to get to the good mobs or sneak in very carefully (and terrans are not known for the lowest sig either)... and try and pluck out mobs one at a time and since there were more mobs... they called for help more often...

actually, a good example of what kiting was like in live exsists in earth sector at the infiniti corp or getco campus... try solo kiting those at L6 and pull the L10's when they pop... and that is what is was like say in antares or other high level spots were like at cl50...

plus mobs had more health, your weapons were less powerful and theirs more powerful... so it was critical not to start getting hit... where now its not so much an issue...

that is why I say leave the terrans and kiting alone... cuz the player end of that equation is not where the problem is... its the npc part and that will get fixed in time.... mobs will get smarter, become more powerful and plentiful as the devs can get them in game...

Edited October 30, 2010 by Avani

[ENB4lafe6]

I can't really propose a solution for the first 2 things, but for the third thing perhaps Blacksun could do it, maybe there could be some other companies that make such stuff available in game.

Why not give all races access to lvl 9 weapons?

[garblesoup]

Why not give all races access to lvl 9 weapons?

All races DO have access to lvl 9 weapons - but only the variety that matches their racial profile.

[ENB4lafe6]

All races DO have access to lvl 9 weapons - but only the variety that matches their racial profile.

and not what I am saying.

I'd like to see more variety amongst weapon and playstyle options.

[GenghisBob]

Because the weapon type that you can get to level 9 is the biggest reason to chose one race over another. If you want missiles, choose Terran, etc. Since all races now have all 3 professions, that is no longer a reason to chose an alternate race.

[ENB4lafe6]

Because the weapon type that you can get to level 9 is the biggest reason to chose one race over another. If you want missiles, choose Terran, etc. Since all races now have all 3 professions, that is no longer a reason to chose an alternate race.

Why do we need a reason to choose one race over another?

Why not open up more diverse character building options and gameplay?

I like being Progen for the lore but I really hate being pigeon-holed into using Projectiles.

Am also a closet kiter and a big fan of MLs.

As to the topic, I can agree with Terrans and say leave the kiting to those kiting.

[afrodub]

Kiting is my book was the ability to keep range agsint a mob, so that you could continue to do damage to it, while not falling within its attack range, unless you wanted to (see debuffing)

Jenquai Kiting:

Kiting on a jenquai was one of the more difficult tasks in the game, but it could be done. There were certin mobs that a Jenquai could kite without any fear. It required alot of actual player skill.

You would need to be able to reverse kite, foldspace, and have a Coma device.

Tatic: combat cloak, get within debuff range, attack, hit the plasma debuff, hit the coma, hit fold space. If you attacked the mob from behind you could shoot, debuff, and fold away before the mob turned around to attack you. (this applies to beam and pl using mobs) Than you would combat cloak, shoot at max range, reverse kite till when the mob was within its attack range and shooting you, than you'd fold out, combat cloak up, and repete.

For warping mobs, follow the same procedure, except when you notice the mob entering warp (the warp tunnel graphic) you cancell your target, engage warp at the mob, and stop a little bit behind them. (mobs did not have the ability to cancell warp, so you could effectly get behind them very easily when they intiated warp.)

Progen:

Kiting on Progens was not really a nesscity as progens both PS and PW could tank almost everything. But alot of people did kite, for the main fact you could engage more mobs, as you didnt have to wait for your shields to recharge.

Tatic:

Find a mob you want to kill, hit it with grav link to pull/aggro it. As the mob starts coming towards you, you reverse away from it shooting it, the trick is to try and be faster in reverse than the mob going forward, that way you could stop every 10 or so seconds, and pick up combat trance(this applies for kiting pws). (for a PS you would reverse kite, than make a 90 degree turn, and hit menace (this would make the mob run away from you in a direction, not heading back to the spawn))

If you picked up multiple mobs on the pull, you would skip using grav link again, agsint your main target, and just grav link, the adds, so that it slowed them down.

There was not a warp avoidance plan for the pw. usually you could just warp into the spawn and kill everything. But you had the option to kite, if you wanted.

Terrans:

Kiting on a terran was pretty easy. But at times requiered careful planning. Terrans were not the "win all button" as many poeple claim them to be. Terrans made up for their kiting, for having less than subpar reactors, and devices. Im sure if any of the people who ACTUALLY played in live remembers, it was very hard to keep juice in the reactor for very long.

Tatics:

Find your target, shoot missiles at them, fly away, wait for them to die. <~~~yes this is how live was and it was great.

Before i end this, please note, that i have sucesfully played in live, a TE, TT, PS, PW, JE and JD. and i had alot of fun, testing their limits.

I can has know what im talking about.

Cia

[r8rsfans75]

Why do we need a reason to choose one race over another?

Why not open up more diverse character building options and gameplay?

I like being Progen for the lore but I really hate being pigeon-holed into using Projectiles.

Am also a closet kiter and a big fan of MLs.

As to the topic, I can agree with Terrans and say leave the kiting to those kiting.

Hmm, I kinda see your point, but with lvl 8 available for all the classes for every weapon....I wonder what the difference in DPS is between a PW with 6 lvl 8 ML's versus a TE with 5 lvl 9 ML's. My guess would be that is still a pretty vicious tank/kiter.

[garblesoup]

(for a PS you would reverse kite, than make a 90 degree turn, and hit menace (this would make the mob run away from you in a direction, not heading back to the spawn))

Huh, learn something every day. Thanks for that tip, Cia.

[afrodub]

Huh, learn something every day. Thanks for that tip, Cia.

no problem at all

[Terrell [BT]]

Hmm, I kinda see your point, but with lvl 8 available for all the classes for every weapon....I wonder what the difference in DPS is between a PW with 6 lvl 8 ML's versus a TE with 5 lvl 9 ML's. My guess would be that is still a pretty vicious tank/kiter.

Might be interesting. I think that maybe the TW will do more DPS, but I could be wrong. The very best MLs are likely Terran Only at L8, plus races don't usually manufacture their secondary weapon to the same level of quality as their primary weapon. Works out like this as far as each race is concerned.

Terrans:

Missiles>Beams>Projectiles

Progen:

Projectiles>Missiles>Beams

Jenquai:

Beams>Projectiles>Missiles

I think that while a PW using missiles would be quite effective, I think that the TW will do more DPS than the PW with the TW's L9 missiles. Wouldn't want to be the mob that either of them are shooting.

For Progen and JW, one can easily get a range boost for missiles, since it's available on the Model X, Y, and Z Shields, and those shields are both manufacturable and have no racial or class restrictions on them. Other buffs like Turbo and handling buffs may be more difficult to obtain.

Also there are 4 classes that don't get all 3 weapon types, the JE, JT,TT, and Scout. Scout & TT don't get Projectiles, JE & JT don't get missiles.

[seekeronos]

L8 Beam/OL150++ Progen is a beast to see vs. Organic mobs

One of our guildies was running an experimental setup with a HotDO/and 4x Pitbull Jrs, a Scimitar Max (I think) and a Ruby Disruptor.

Granted, not up to par with a JD running 5 choice L9 beams... but great for farming high level organics.

[Zyrith Skye]

A PW with 6 beams is a sight to behold. Plus you don't need ammo. I'd use beams over missiles if I had the choice on my PW. I could see Jenquai using missiles for kiting over proj. Plus you Terran's have that thing called cargo for ammo.

I'd see it as...

Terrans:

Missiles>Projectiles>Beams

Progen:

Projectiles>Beams>Missiles

Jenquai:

Beams>Missiles>Projectiles

But to each their own.

[Reon]

Well, kiting is more challenging now than it was live. I remember kiting mobs through an entire sector on my TE, and watching merchant princes using kiting to solo very hard vrix mobs that should have taken a group. the mobs still have a huge tether point compared to most other MMO's. I think the current setup is fine, however, at lower levels I would lower the mobs speed...I don't know about high levels since me and elurai haven't leveled that high yet. As long as at max level its possible to kite most mobs from 5k-7k away while backing up with projectiles, I wouldn't change much.

Kiting with projectiles was a standard practice in live, beams not so much. I remember when I played my JE live I either used projectiles and a range increase weapon, of if there was a JD, me and the JD would break off and attack the mob from behind with the progens and terrans kited the mob.

Either way, me and el rolled a jenquai team and a progen/terran team. Her JS and my JD are way overpowered using combat cloak and my psi shield and her shield and reactor recharge. On our other set, I use my TE to pull in the mobs, and we back up as the mobs pull into her PP's projectiles range. We can't fully kite mobs that way, but we can stay out of beam range with the use of max level cats paw and engines available at our level.

I would say it is fine for now and any tweaks that need to be made will happen over the course of the stress test and when we finally get to the beta.

[comsciguy82]

I don't remember my experiences from Live all that much, but I do remember my TE that I used to do basic missile kiting with (I think I barely reached OL 100 back then) and it wasn't all that exciting. However, EnB was my first ever MMO, and I didn't understand very much about theorycraft, specialization, group dynamics, class roles, etc, so I probably had no idea what I was doing or how to do it well.

Now, I have been playing a TT and a TS and let me tell you, kiting as a TS with missiles and lightning fast thrusting engines (and intentionally high signature) with even just 1 group member is lots and lots of fun. My friend has a JE and I will gather up an entire mining area and let the JE pick one target off me at a time. We then commence the obliteration, and we keep our mining areas safe with no risk of damage whatsoever I've even gotten good at running the mobs away, ninja'ing an asteroid, and escaping before they get in weapon range. Sooooo much fun.

[Norcus]

Someone called for a terran opinion.

I played several classes but my main warrior was TE.

TE Kiting advantages

With my TE I could solo Voltoi bosses in Antares. The skill involved kiting them in circle around the station without getting within range of the station defense. Later when I got all my turbo and reactor buffs I could usually finish them off before I reached the station. Gravlinking mobs could usually be handled but harder since you needed to stay inside missile range and outside gravlink range. With a little lag this failed, but if you were careful it was still easy to get the mob far away from spawn and a TE with the proper equipment can still tank pretty good. The TE is the perfect backup tank too. The PW should lead the group while the TE watches for adds and peel them off the squishies. TT can also hold a mob or two.

TE weaknesses

Killing with TE was slower than with PW and JDs and it could sometimes be hard to beat the spawnrate (especially in Cooper). Also, if a PW or JD contested your hunting grounds, you really did not stand a chance and it was time to move on or waste a lot of expensive missiles.

E&B was not really meant to be competitive, but it turned out that way because sweet loot spots got crowded. In the long run you will always be better off in a group with a mix of classes, kiting or no kiting.

[Gamera]

I had a 150 TE in live but have since jumped to a PS. How is missile accuracy in the emu as compared to live, in which at least one out of your 5 missiles was guaranteed to miss the mob on average, depending on missile turnrate and the mob's agility?

I'm just asking because part of the dangers of kiting in a competitive area was that as a TE you had the weakest DPS of the three combat classes, and would need to often bombard targets with 3-4 salvoes by charging from max range to 0.0 so everything could hit at once and guarantee your loot rights with 51% damage. That too gave kiting a unique challenge. People just don't like TE kiting and KS attempts were frequent.

A TE whose every missile hits the target has much less to worry about with competition.

Edited December 19, 2010 by Mighty Gamera

[Falstar [MOD]]

Considering this thread started over 2 years ago, I'm locking it as much has changed since then.