MINERS - please respond - cherry picking

[Terrell [BT]]

Post 150 a miner could max his build skills, though with the JT making reactors now, it's not as big of a gain as it was for a JE. It also depends on exactly how you spent your skill points on the way to 150. The JE for example doesn't have really any "throwaway" skills, IMO all of them have some use, but it's not possible to max all of them prior to 150. (I'm not arguing that it should be possible, because then there would be little to work for after 150)

If Befriend is useless, then maybe something needs to be done to make the skill better.

I would expect that a JE that has no intention of building, at least prior to 150 would likely still have some skills that could be more useful if improved. E-sheild for example does give deflects at lower levels, but at higher levels 5+ gives some damage feedback to any enemy that attacks you with a non-energy weapon. It's not much, but I don't think that a JE isn't going to think it's not without some use. 6+ actually converts some (non-energy) damage to reactor power.

Shield Leech may not have any points put into it, if you've maxed JS, Navigate, Scan, Wh, L6 Cloak, yet some might find it useful, if you can coma the mob, and fire it off without getting pounded.

How useful high level engines are in game, largely will depend on the warp cap, which engines are in game for use (usefulness of their buffs, how good thier stats are), and how thrust is affected by upgrading engines. We can already warp faster in the Emulator than in Live, without needing a NOS, unless they've lowered the cap (or imposed one) since ST3. IMO the SS8 makes Engine Tech 8 worthwile, and if you're not a Terran, that's max engines. The zero sig, and stackable buffs to both shield and reactor, alone make it worthwhile. All explorers, and Jenquai find the device energy conservation buff useful as well.

[Amethyst]

How roid respawn works as far as I've seen it happen.

Mine a few roids - they reappear as similar roids within an hour - and always by an hour. The composition varies a little eg remove a hydrocarbon with 4 tincal and it replaces it with another similar level hydrocarbon with maybe ambrosia.

These roids seem to appear randomly about an hour later. If you removed the majority quickly, they will appear to respawn all at once.

The overall quality varies but it is generally similar quality that reappears, bot often with a slightly different mix.

If you clear a field and get a field bonus the field will respawn all at once about 10-20mins later - normally 15mins.

The field is a similar composition as before. If there is a pattern I believe the identical roid layout reappears 3-4 spawns later, but even then the individual roid contents are randomized.

The fields have a certain feel and quality to them. Some L7-8 field have one or two L9s. Other mainly L8 field have several L9 roids. Sometimes they are more crystaline and have ammo ores, others are more hydrocarbon, others are more 'rock'.

The general composition stays after respawn.

The really best ores appear in the worst locations closely guarded by big mobs. The quirk is Glenn where you can get totally unguarded L9 rocks. Everyone knows this but the 'free lunch' is on a table where everyone wants to eat. If you want the best then go explore. I am yet to see any miners in the places I go - but you will need L7 shields at least.

If anyone is having a problem 'cherry-picking' (ie someone beating you to it) then I'd suggest finding other systems - there is PLENTY of ore out there.

[Orcrist]

First off I didn't even bother to read your poll because its useless. Whatever your trying to get out of this poll is pointless. The ability to "cherry pick" an asteroid is simply a game mechanic and it is just as it was in live. I'm guessing that you had such fits about it back then as well. You dont have to like it .. you dont even have to put up with it but if your going to play a miner class then my suggestion is to either gain explorer xp by doing tours or shut up and deal with your self made torture amongst your own little world in your head where "cherry picking" is not allowed.

Keep in mind that the devs could easily take away this freedom to cherry pick by locking a roid so while this debate is age old a consensus is also pointless unless we are going to make a new kind of server in addition to the pve server, the pvp server, and now introducing the NO Cherry Picking Server (which we would interestingly enough combine with the no multi-box/macro server lol).

AVANI you forgot to add the server where theres no kill stealling and everyone has to give you whatever you want first.

Simply put people quit bitching about things that are game mechanic and focus more on finding problems that are not known bugs and "PLAY" the game as a side note.

If it were me incharge - at this point with all the children winning over such trival things Id make it closed testing already. and now I know why big companies always do such tightly closed testing.

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[Mattsacre]

This seems on the lines of "toilet seat up" or "toilet seat down" if it bothers you that the last user left the seat up...then put it down and carry on with your business. If you just can't stand that the last user left things in a condition you find unexceptable...then don't use it..go somewhere else.

My way of thinking is: why did you leave the toilet seat down? I left it up for a reason! Would you please be kind enough not to go leaving toilet seats down please?

[Toreava]

Well - I can't answer this poll. The second part of the poll does not take into consideration that the miner might have screwed up -- I know I have. And I have to answer both parts of the poll to be considered.

People here have some valid points. I recently went looking for certain ores, and I would most certainly have cleared the roids in which I found them. Another miner was there first, and had stripped all the valuable building ores out before me. I was angry.

In retrospect, I think I can say I was angrier because s/he had gotten there before me. My response to the incident was based more on emotion rather than a thought process. Now I would have to be the one to clear the whole field to get what I wanted. But even if this other person had cleared out the roid - would the roid have respawned in a timely fashion?

No.

Still - to have miners running around spinning through roids and leaving the garbage seems impolite. Having some sort of structure shows that there is concern for everyone. And wherever there exists the possibility of anarchy, there will always have to be rules.

[GenghisBob]

I will continue to take the ores I want and leave the rest until I have unlimited inventory space. I usually leave stuff because I just don't have space. And, I'm not going to quit mining just because I can't hold an additional ore type. I will keep collecting the types I have (that will stack) until I'm bored enough to stop. And I don't care if someone calls it 'Cherry Picking'!!!

Actually, I'm a PW but I have a JE alt.

[Klyde]

This argument started in beta, continued to live, and got so heated at times that finally the EA devs put in a clearing bonus to entice people to clear the field instead of leaving it half done.

Did it cure anything? Nope.

There will always be those who clear the whole field, and there will always be those who take just what they need/want and leave the rest.

It's not a perfect world, with not so perfect people living on it, may as well get used to it.

My miners have always cleared, sure it was a bit more work cause I had to space stuff to keep room in cargo,but thats me. I just never really cared that I came across a field that had been cherry picked before I got there. I mined it all anyway.

[Toreava]

...some game mechanics I observe as a regular miner...

In fact there are 4 systems I go to for 3-4hrs a day and I am yet to see a miner there.

Not true, Amethyst. My entire response was based on crossing paths with you. Although I did not speak to you, I do have documentation. But read what I said before you jump on this response.

[RadRachel]

To be honest I really hate ppl who cherry pick and I classify cherry picking as opening a roid and not emptying it, I think its extremely rude and shows very poor consideration to other players. I always keep 4 to 5 open spots in my cargo for junk or less valuable ores that I can toss easily and quickly. I do agree that that mobs need to be scaled to the lvl of the field and argo needs to be managed better, I'm a little tired of getting argo'd by one mob and then having everything within 15k coming gunning for me. I'm am suprised at how ppl say they don't mind cherry picking till it happens to them and they loose out on the ores they're looking for. I've been mining and had ppl cut in front of me and start cherry picking, when I comment on how I was there first and the least they could do would be to empty the roids they did pull from, the responses vary from no response to profanity, but when I turn the tables and cut in front of them and cherry pick, they get upset about it. I like mining because its relaxing for me and I try and have consideration for my fellow players, from some of the responses I've read it seems that consideration of other players is not desirable game play, shaft the other player before they shaft you seems to be the attitude with various reasons why its ok to do so. If this is the general attitude among the mining community I'll start a new miner and cherry pick away without any re-guard for my fellow players.

[Amethyst]

Toreava - I did re-read - which system where? I'd hate to think I've been annoying you, as honestly this week I have not seen a single miner where I normally go with the exception of Glenn (which everyone know is a silly battlefield).

And documentation...without speaking to me - what on earth (and beyond) do you mean? Message me in game so we can resolve this. Apart from the scramble for gas I'd normally leave any field where another miner is already working.

[Tenkaris]

Whoever made up the term cherry picking and tried to construe it as griefing needed to take a step back and relax. That anyone has the ridiculous level of imagination to in some way consider this griefing is beyond my comprehension. Does anyone actually think the entire world is out to get them in this way? Remember in live when antares bio loot sold for 72k a piece, making up for it's lack of stacking? Well now antares bio loot sells for 1.4k a piece, making it absolutely not worth the trouble. Hence... I leave most bio loot in corpses. Does this mean I'm cherry picking the corpses?

No. It doesn't. I got there first, and you're just whining. I think anyone who feels they have any right to complain about this is silly and needs to take a step back and reevalulate their feelings on the game and on this subject. There are plenty of ores to be had... dry your eyes and move on. Just because you see it and it upsets you does not make any justifiable argument for claiming it was griefing. Someone picked out the ore they wanted, for whatever reason. They didn't do it because "[whiney player] will show up later and have a fit lololol," they did it for some other reason. You see it and you feel your little world collapsing because it's against your own little personal book of rules on mining, and therefore you construe it as an action taken against you personally, as intentional griefing. When in reality, you are only griefing yourself and making yourself upset by applying your little made-up rule to every player in the game.

[Yusagi]

this came up in live early on. we were asked by ceredith to empty out any asteroids we mined so they would respawn. if you have a field full of half-mined rocks then they'll sit there not letting those desirable ores, minerals and such respawn. easy as that. if there are ores in those asteroids you dont want just empty the thing out and destroy the ore... or would that again constitute too much trouble?

[Tenkaris]

this came up in live early on. we were asked by ceredith to empty out any asteroids we mined so they would respawn. if you have a field full of half-mined rocks then they'll sit there not letting those desirable ores, minerals and such respawn. easy as that. if there are ores in those asteroids you dont want just empty the thing out and destroy the ore... or would that again constitute too much trouble?

I don't see why I should have to change my method of play just because other players have made up their own weird ethical code for doing something they feel everyone should follow.

[dragonorb13]

Cherry picking is a term derived from... well, cherry picking... picking the cherries that are ripe, leaving the rest for later.

Can be griefing, if the person doing it is doing it to be a jerk. But, at the same time if your hold is half full of ammo (PS and TS can both easily defend themselves and need ammo), you're not exactly going to be able to take a lot of ores, so in this condition, not a griefing issue. It could be they came to try to find a specific ore or are in a time crunch (some of us like to get a fix before work) and have to get their butts in gear. Also, it's actually (in this instance) a bonus for people that come to mine for XP later... they can still get some ore, get the clear bonuses for most of them, and get the field clear bonus, which is great for leveling.

The *only* time this is griefing is when the person doing it is being malicious. If the want to advertise for a lower level miner to come and clear the junk ore, great. If not, that's their call. If you don't like it, you can either go to other places to mine, or suck it up, mine what's there, force the respawn and have extra money and XP... And personally, I really don't see an issue with it. Mining 'roid out just to toss out what ya don't need is time consuming and hazardous anywhere you DO need to stockpile munitions.

[Amethyst]

They do NOT just sit there - all the fields I know repopulate, and replacement ores are just as sparkly and pretty...try it.

To say the field stays stagnant is simply incorrect.

Show me a field that 'just sits there'... it needs reporting as broken. Fields renew themselves.

Any GM want to comment on the mechanics?

I am also certain we are talking about different issues in different situations. Glenn and a few other places are a mad scramble because there are no mobs and too many miners - you are welcome to Glenn as I only mine there (usually gas) when I'm waiting for customers to roll up.

But there are plenty of other places with plenty of ore and few miners.

The fields I visit have 80-200 roids in - and quite unrealistic to empty due to the MOBs, the distance from a station, and the quantities/variety of ore. We aint talking Glenn. There seem to be too many unadventurous miners wanting to go and explore the abundance out there. I have a list of 41 different fields where L9s occur and that is in just a few of the outlying systems.

And I have to say again - where I go I am yet to see a single miner in most of those places. And if I did see someone there, I doubt they would be diligently removing every last roid as its just impractical. I would also let them carry on in peace and move on to the next one on the list.

[Willy]

this came up in live early on. we were asked by ceredith to empty out any asteroids we mined so they would respawn. if you have a field full of half-mined rocks then they'll sit there not letting those desirable ores, minerals and such respawn. easy as that. if there are ores in those asteroids you dont want just empty the thing out and destroy the ore... or would that again constitute too much trouble?

What if my hold is full, and in order to clear out the junk of a roid, I would have to destroy ores I actually want to keep?

IMO if I get to a roid first, I can decide what I want to do with that roid at that given time. Sometimes I may clear it for the XP. Sometimes I'm just looking for valuable ores, or maybe i'm only hunting for certain ores for a specific component. Either way, there are way too many variables to make a definitve rule for or against it so, to me, the discussion is moot.

Just go out and play the game and stop getting your panties in a bunch over trivial stuff.

[dragonorb13]

First off I didn't even bother to read your poll because its useless. Whatever your trying to get out of this poll is pointless. The ability to "cherry pick" an asteroid is simply a game mechanic and it is just as it was in live. I'm guessing that you had such fits about it back then as well. You dont have to like it .. you dont even have to put up with it but if your going to play a miner class then my suggestion is to either gain explorer xp by doing tours or shut up and deal with your self made torture amongst your own little world in your head where "cherry picking" is not allowed.

Keep in mind that the devs could easily take away this freedom to cherry pick by locking a roid so while this debate is age old a consensus is also pointless unless we are going to make a new kind of server in addition to the pve server, the pvp server, and now introducing the NO Cherry Picking Server (which we would interestingly enough combine with the no multi-box/macro server lol).

AVANI you forgot to add the server where theres no kill stealling and everyone has to give you whatever you want first.

Simply put people quit bitching about things that are game mechanic and focus more on finding problems that are not known bugs and "PLAY" the game as a side note.

If it were me incharge - at this point with all the children winning over such trival things Id make it closed testing already. and now I know why big companies always do such tightly closed testing.

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I love the flaming... Insulting someone because you are to stupid or lazy to bother reading what they were doing is GREAT. I mean, it's just my favorite thing in the world. You should be given a position and title so that the devs and GMs can kick you in the teeth and take it away. Oh wait... the first three lines were sarcasm, sorry... the tags for transferring sarcasm over text must be broken again. Please, people, don't insult people on an information gathering mission. and if you ARE going to insult them, at least have the decency to read what they have to say. If you can't even do that much, then PRETEND to be semi-intelligent and don't SAY you didn't read it.

[bondct]

Keep in mind that the devs could easily take away this freedom to cherry pick by locking a roid so while this debate is age old a consensus is also pointless unless we are going to make a new kind of server in addition to the pve server, the pvp server, and now introducing the NO Cherry Picking Server (which we would interestingly enough combine with the no multi-box/macro server lol).

AVANI you forgot to add the server where theres no kill stealling and everyone has to give you whatever you want first.

damn I knew I was forgetting sumtin... but dinner was ready and if you dont come to the table right away, the wife unplugs the computer

oh and I guess if you think about it... the person that described what cherry picking actually is... makes sense... you only pick the ripe cherries off the tree and leave the other ones and check back on them later in time and only pick them once they are ripe... so I guess by that definition... anyone who does not cherry pick is being inconsiderate? and what I really wanna know is what are they doing with all those unripened cherries

[GenghisBob]

Are you people kidding me. Now I'm reading that it is impolite to even mine in a field if someone else was there first.

Well get VERY used to impolite. I will never pass a ore field because someone else is there. It's not their field.

Everyone has a right to mine everywhere. Until there is a game mechanic to reserve an ore field, you can't.

[seekeronos]

Are you people kidding me. Now I'm reading that it is impolite to even mine in a field if someone else was there first.

Well get VERY used to impolite. I will never pass a ore field because someone else is there. It's not their field.

Everyone has a right to mine everywhere. Until there is a game mechanic to reserve an ore field, you can't.

Pretty much agreed.

And barring any agreement between miners as to what they would like to share from a given field... then may the best combo of engines, reactors, prospect levels, and devices win the pull of those elite ores/gases.

[Gamera]

Cherry picking is poor etiquette and generally should be avoided, but in the event of a full hold it's okay. Once in a while.

But for everybody else's sake, keep a free spot or two in your hold for trash ores. You don't like seeing a field full of half-empty L9 hydrocarbons with nothing above L7s in them and neither do I.

Cool? Cool.

As for more than one miners inside a field, it's all competition. Don't think I'm going to leave that Erebusite if you haven't gotten to it yet, sorry.

[Toreava]

Toreava - I did re-read - which system where? I'd hate to think I've been annoying you, as honestly this week I have not seen a single miner where I normally go with the exception of Glenn (which everyone know is a silly battlefield).

And documentation...without speaking to me - what on earth (and beyond) do you mean? Message me in game so we can resolve this. Apart from the scramble for gas I'd normally leave any field where another miner is already working.

No, Amythyst, you were already there. You were there, first. What I said stands. You took what you needed, and we just happened to need those nice building ores. After thinking about it, I did realize that I was there to do almost the same thing with the exception that I would have emptied the roids.

But it wouldn't have made a difference if I had emptied the asteroids! The field would still have taken its sweet old time to respawn, and I was making a set of shields for which I had to make the parts.

After thinking it over, it was more a problem for me that you got there first. See? I'm being honest.

I would have emptied the roids, you took what you needed along with all the high level roids and left the stripped roids. Neither would have made a difference when it came to the length of time it takes to respawn a field. Neither of us went there with the intent to clear the field.

But neither of us had large enough holds to finish off the fields. Together we might have done it, but I didn’t ask you to do so.

I mentioned you in general chat when you were stripping the roids, so that is in my chat log.

No need to resolve anything between us. We’re okay.

[StarSeekerVDS]

Together we might have done it

This.

[Giest310]

In my personal opinion, I don't think there is a such thing as cherry picking. If someone gets their first, they get what they want and if they don't clear everything including the field, they don't get that bonus... that's again, MY O-P-I-N-I-O-N.

I agree with Starkor. of course if a field has been chery picked does the person who comes in behind get the bouns for clearing the field, or clearing the roid i think it should be clearing the roid , ie BOB comes in and Chery pickes 2 nice items and leaves the leave 1 item un picked not roid bounce , then Walt comes along and clears the roid Walt should get the bounce for roid clearing.

I cant remember from live what happens and i haven mined because the my miner cant get skills yet.

[fuulishone]

I agree with Starkor. of course if a field has been chery picked does the person who comes in behind get the bouns for clearing the field, or clearing the roid i think it should be clearing the roid , ie BOB comes in and Chery pickes 2 nice items and leaves the leave 1 item un picked not roid bounce , then Walt comes along and clears the roid Walt should get the bounce for roid clearing.

I cant remember from live what happens and i haven mined because the my miner cant get skills yet.

To the best of my understanding while mining along side someone not grouped with me, it kinda works like this:

Miner A comes in a picks out the ores s/he wants and doesn't empty the roid.

Miner B comes in a empties the roid, gets the roid clear bonus.

Miner B empties the field and gets the field clear bonus (minus however many roids Miner A actually cleared).