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Insta-warp...is it possible?


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I've had a few friends try the game, which was great. Unfortunately, they didn't like it due to various reasons. The top reason being the time it takes to get from sector to sector.

After talking with them, out of curiosity, I asked what they'd like to see in a game like this to help resolve that issue. One of the suggestions was "Insta-warp". I can totally understand this. After all, part of playing a game is having fun with it.

In some cases, when it takes 20 minutes to fly from one area to where ever your destination is, that's 20 minutes of wasted time. Gamers like to game, not watch a ship fly and do nothing except wait to get to a gate, go thorough and wait some more.

In most cases, gaming is "time sensitive", meaning, most of us only have a certain amount of time that we can play. So, if it takes 20 minutes to get somewhere, and you only have an hour to play, you've just cut your game time to 40 minutes. We all know that 40 minutes in this game is nothing.

Sure, you could always make a JE and cut some of the time down, but not everyone likes to play certain classes, and in the end, it's more time "wasted".

So, how can this be corrected or help to be made more "gamer friendly" for those who don't have extended periods to play?

One suggestion is, through exploration.

As it is right now, there isn't much of an incentive to explore for most classes, other then xp. After a certain point, there is no more xp to be gained (or very little anyway). To increase this incentive, add more hidden navigation points. Once a sector has been completely 100% explored (all nav points found), implement a reward that grants a player to instantly warp from one gate to another. This could also be tied in with ones over-all level since not all classes have navigate. Another option would be based on Engine tech.

As far as trade runs are concerned, this would be an obvious advantage. To correct that, tag "Insta-warp" like Wormhole. If you insta-warp, your cargo becomes worthless.

Another way, and possibly more practical, would be through missions.

There aren't a lot of missions mid level through high level and this would be one way to fill the gaps, so to speak. As a reward for each mission, create a device that is upgradable. As the device is upgraded, it would unlock more sectors with which you could "insta-warp" from gate to gate.

In theory, this could actually be done several ways. Either through a device builder, through "trade in", or it could just be a non-manufacturable reward device that renders the lower one less desirable to use. An example of this would be the Jenquai bonus mission. The first device you receive is the Novice's Ward. Much later this can be discarded and replaced when you complete the mission for Sai'Li, which rewards you with Sai'Li's Circle.

The beauty of device's is that they can be switched out easily and would make this much more practical as some of us do this with other devices anyway.

None of this is needed immediately (if at all). In the long run though, if it can be done, it would make the game much less time consuming and more fun, not to mention, add some much needed content IMHO.

Just a suggestion and food for thought.

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While I do agree that spending a third of your time playing the game just watching your ship fly by nav points and gating does get a little old, the insta-warp idea has a few disadvantages to the game balance. First of all, it almost completely removes the need for WH's which besides mining is almost the entire purpose of even having a JE in the game. Jobs would become way too easy if you could basically skip through each section until you got to the one you needed. As it is right now, if you have a JE with max WH, you are basically a WH and two or fewer gates away from just about everywhere in the galaxy.

The one thing I miss from live is how often the Market channel would have "WTB WH to xxx"

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I'm trying to look at this from the point of view of someone that is playing the game for the very first time.

Here's a little test that I did knowing exactly where I'm going..

Class: Progen Warrior.

Level: 1 (freshly made character, no nav points explored)

Starting point, Arx Forgus

Warp speed: 2000

Destination: Net-7

Time: 00:11:07 (Eleven minutes, seven seconds)

next Destination: Joves Fury

Time: 00:02:43

Explore xp gained: 1 level + 71.46%

Accomplished: Besides EL gained, absolutely nothing.

Total time: 00:13:50

So, almost 14 minutes of doing absolutely nothing but leaving the station, watching a ship fly and clicking on 4 gates. At level one, this isn't ever going change unless you have a faster PC and can get through gates faster and click on nav points faster. Warp start up and cool down is at a set rate, so that stays constant as a new player won't have access to these.

What this doesn't include is, Looking up maps to see where you need to go or asking in new player chat where things are located (if you can even get an answer). Also not included is "natural explore" time, combat or trade of any kind to gain items that would help speed up anything.

Next, going with the theory that it would totally nullify the need for a JE in the game. The closest Weft is in ABB, which requires a JE to have a minimum EL of 35. Total time from Arx Forgus to Helios weft, using the same PW is, 9 minutes. I don't know, or haven't met yet, a single JE that is willing to come to where you are located and create a wormhole. At EL 35, they still don't have the w/h to Carpenter or Endriago either. So to get to, let's say....Somerled, you would still have to travel through all the sectors to get there. With my first example of an hour to play, you just burned through at least half of that time doing nothing.

As for "so called content", I'm not suggesting being able to "insta-warp" from the very beginning at level one. It would be something you would still need to accomplish through whatever means needed to get to that point. After all, we don't start with level 9 weapons, reactor, shields, etc at level one do we? (not to mention, some classes can't even get to level 9 in certain skills).

Another thing would be, travel within a given sector would still need to be done "conventionally".

And Jobs, I shouldn't go there, but I will. Jobs are a major pain. Sometimes the terminal will refresh with 9+ jobs, other times there is one. I'm picky about which jobs I take and most times it takes 3-5 refreshes (since the last change from 10 to 6) to get 6 that are going to the same place or anywhere near it.

Almost ALL of the jobs that are even remotely close to a station are camped very heavily, which results in even more time waiting to even get 6...period. And this is with less then 300 players 99% of the time. What would that be like with 1000+ players? Near impossible and no where near worth the time it would take to do them. But that's a completely different suggestion topic.

So again, using the same time frame of an hour to play, if you waited for the terminal to refresh 3-5 times, you might as well not even log in, because your play time is over before you even get started. First you would need to fly to a station that has jobs that you can actually take (unless you logged out there), then you need to get 6 jobs (which might be right off the bat or you may have to wait 2+ refreshes) then you need to fly to the area that your particular job is at, then fly back again.

Let's not forget, that if you happen to crash at a gate, or leaving the station (because neither of those EVER happen) you just lost everything you just waited for and have no time to try again until the next available time you have to play.

I am in no way complaining. Just stating facts. I like the game with all of it's pro's and cons it has now and realize it's no where near being finished.

As I said, I'm trying to look at it from a new players point of view and "suggest" things to make it more appealing to those that don't like certain aspects, e.g. Travel time. Not to open up GM commands or anything else.

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Small nitpick on WH and EL ABB requires EL25, Carpenter EL35, and Endriago EL45. Whether or not a JE gets it right at those levels, is up to the JE to decide whether or not to spend his points there first. Almost all of a JE's skills are EL based, so adding points to wh, after L4 may fall behind Cloak, Prospect, Jumpstart, and Navigate in priority depending on the player's priorities.

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As I said, I'm trying to look at it from a new players point of view and "suggest" things to make it more appealing to those that don't like certain aspects, e.g. Travel time.

traveling to Joves (as noob PW) or queuing up for Jobs are not activities for noobie player, but experienced players that try to think like noobies (which will never work if i may add). Noobie goes where mission takes them... period.

if warping takes too long, then give a noobie a better engine.

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All that warping means players have a fair bit of time to chat - something that has contributed to the 'enb community' being what it is.

Think of it, in most games when you are conversing with someone else you are losing out on EXP or cash, ENB doesn't :)

Also, while warping you can eat, take a biobreak, or do any one of numerous things. I guess its all about how you adapt to living with warping, once you get used to it, it's actually great.

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I apologize for ruffling the feathers of the hardcore players. I'm not trying to be the devils advocate here.

It doesn't really matter anyway as those particular friends quit playing. This game isn't for everyone I suppose. I was merely making a suggestion based on what we talked about.

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I apologize for ruffling the feathers of the hardcore players. I'm not trying to be the devils advocate here.

It doesn't really matter anyway as those particular friends quit playing. This game isn't for everyone I suppose. I was merely making a suggestion based on what we talked about.

There is no need to apologize for making a suggestion. When I read it I was thinking how I would miss what was posted above, hitting the head, grabbibg a snack... you know the drill. But I also thought that getting from point A to point B in here (was like it in live as well) you need to go to point X,Y,Z before getting to point B. In that if you have the Nav Computer device that is in game I would think that that should be able to bypass all the extra navs between A and B for those times you just need to get through a sector.

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There is no need to apologize for making a suggestion. When I read it I was thinking how I would miss what was posted above, hitting the head, grabbibg a snack... you know the drill. But I also thought that getting from point A to point B in here (was like it in live as well) you need to go to point X,Y,Z before getting to point B. In that if you have the Nav Computer device that is in game I would think that that should be able to bypass all the extra navs between A and B for those times you just need to get through a sector.

Don't know if it's possible, but if you're talking about direct gate to gate warp (within a sector), that would be a nice buff to put on a device. Would especially find that useful in ABA, Aragoth Prime, and a few other locations. Would have to be of Terran Manufacture, so everyone can use it, say a L5 device or so.

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I apologize for ruffling the feathers of the hardcore players. I'm not trying to be the devils advocate here.

It doesn't really matter anyway as those particular friends quit playing. This game isn't for everyone I suppose. I was merely making a suggestion based on what we talked about.

No need to apologize and don't stop making suggestions either.

Don't know if it's possible, but if you're talking about direct gate to gate warp (within a sector), that would be a nice buff to put on a device. Would especially find that useful in ABA, Aragoth Prime, and a few other locations. Would have to be of Terran Manufacture, so everyone can use it, say a L5 device or so.

You know it is really not that hard to freewarp with the same effect.

One trick is using a sticker and cutting it into a very small dot of about 1-2 millimeters. You stick it to the point on your screen where you warp at (takes a few tries at most to get right). Then you just use it as a cross-hair for free warping across sectors very accurately. Dirt easy.

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No need to apologize and don't stop making suggestions either.

You know it is really not that hard to freewarp with the same effect.

One trick is using a sticker and cutting it into a very small dot of about 1-2 millimeters. You stick it to the point on your screen where you warp at (takes a few tries at most to get right). Then you just use it as a cross-hair for free warping across sectors very accurately. Dirt easy.

I agree as far as toons that are higher level with bigger reactors are concerned, it's pretty easy, especially for toons with Navigate, it's only hard on toons that are lower level and have small reactors.

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  • 3 weeks later...

You may be freewarping faster than you think with a high cap reactor, reduce warp cost buff and an engine that is a lower level than your reactor.

Here's a thought. I don't know much about code, or if this is possible but...a device with a certain cooldown...say 10 min for example, that instantly teleports you to a selected nav point within your given sector. It would be unique, so no more than one at a time, and would be unusable in combat. Basically, something to help people cross the insanely huge sectors that take up so much time. See, I have no problem with the smaller ones, like Earth, for example. It's the absolutely massive ones that are game time killers. Something like this would take the edge off travel time, while still keeping the scope of the game intact.

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I have a feeling that would cut too much time off the Somer -> Fenris run. The teleport device is a good idea, but it would probably require some rebalancing of things in-game like trade runs.

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Here's a thought. I don't know much about code, or if this is possible but...a device with a certain cooldown...say 10 min for example, that instantly teleports you to a selected nav point within your given sector. It would be unique, so no more than one at a time, and would be unusable in combat. Basically, something to help people cross the insanely huge sectors that take up so much time. See, I have no problem with the smaller ones, like Earth, for example. It's the absolutely massive ones that are game time killers. Something like this would take the edge off travel time, while still keeping the scope of the game intact.

This idea sounds great as a Jenquai Seeker skill if anything. They are masters of folding space and that profession is still missing skills.

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  • 7 months later...
[quote name='karu' timestamp='1283461696' post='23759']
warping gate-to-gate is part of so called 'content'. what you suggesting is to open up the GM /goto command
[/quote]


I know this is a dead topic, but I think this is a valid way to go. On a subscription based MMO game the idea is to make the game a time sink, so people keep paying their monthly dues. In other forms of games, the idea is to make the content always be fun. Since there is no PVP at the choke points of gates, in fact the entire event of traveling after exploration is done is more or less uneventful, perhaps removing some of the restrictions in game is in order. This is a different beast from when it started.

I am aware this would have to be balanced with trade runs, perhaps it could have the same downside as a wormhole has currently. It would also make wormholes obsolete. That just means we need to find another interesting skill to replace it. (WH as it is tends to look like a waste of skill points since most of them are within 2 jumps of each other anyway.)

A goto command to explored jump gates seems like a reasonable solution.

Considering the goal should be enjoyment of the game, perhaps some other things need to be looked at as well. I have yet to hear anyone say how fun it is to do trade runs endlessly.

Restricting what class can build what type of item also seems to be an issue. Perhaps allow access to the building skills to all classes and let them pick if they want to spend points on devices or engines or whatever, and allow people to play the classes they enjoy instead of the one that needs to build their reactor. Then if we notice a certain class is not being played, we know that class needs some work to make it more fun, rather than making it a required class for some artificial reason. Edited by Whoami
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Free warping is pretty easy to do. If your going from gate to gate or to a station all you have to do is follow the gate untarget and warp. Then retarget when u get close to it. It's what I do when I'm going long distances, because the nav path even straight still slows you down as you get to each nav.
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I am not talking about free warping inside one system. I mean being able to jump like a wormhole across the universe.

Did you read the post? Edited by Whoami
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I wasn't saying to jump to unexplored locations. Did you read the post? Most people get tours anyway.

You would not be forced to use it either. If you want to take the long way, you would be more than welcome to.

EDIT: Your giving me negative rep on my post because you didn't even bother to read the first one? Grow up man. Edited by Whoami
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[quote name='Whoami' timestamp='1303758328' post='39733']
I wasn't saying to jump to unexplored locations. Did you read the post? Most people get tours anyway.

You would not be forced to use it either. If you want to take the long way, you would be more than welcome to.

EDIT: Your giving me negative rep on my post because you didn't even bother to read the first one? Grow up man.
[/quote]

What would be the point of higher level/quality engines and speed devices if one can just WH everywhere? Wouldn't this undermine the market for those (assuming, at some point, some balance is restored to game economy)?
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There would still be initial exploration, trade runs, and in-system warping. All were talking about here is taking out something that hinders actual gameplay, wasted time crossing known space safely.
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