How to hurt multi-boxing.

[Kenu [CDEV]]

not a huge multiboxing fan, but as long as they're not boxing more than 3 I'm ok with it. multiboxing might lead to less grouping among players but as long as there's still guilds i'm sure grouping with other players will still happen.

[mikey976]

so whats the special ability this mob is supposed to get to determine whether or not your multi boxing or soloing?

unleash the power of ....."ping!" lol sorry im just trying to make light of it all.

but on that same note more realistically how can the mob determine your multiboxing? versus playing with a friend or family member in the same house under the same external ip?Spencer Pratt

id love to group with people myself but my primary toon is only OL33 or something and most other players i see are well above 60+ OL

[Heirkusan]

so whats the special ability this mob is supposed to get to determine whether or not your multi boxing or soloing?

unleash the power of ....."ping!" lol sorry im just trying to make light of it all.

but on that same note more realistically how can the mob determine your multiboxing? versus playing with a friend or family member in the same house under the same external ip?Spencer Pratt

id love to group with people myself but my primary toon is only OL33 or something and most other players i see are well above 60+ OL

Best way is to use General Chat, with slight usage of New Players. If you want explore, once in a while you'll find a higher level miner that is mining for their ammo user to help you out on exp or if they are capped out. Now own level is a little rare, mostly won't find unless in a commonly farmed spot. Though hitting 60OL is possible in around 8hours if force it and have the gear. Many just speed level through it, then try to keep balance afterwards. Plus powerleveling explore/TL makes it easier for you to do combat, due to higher devices/shields/reactors to hold guns up. etc

[Tyran]

Ok, this subject strays off from combat multi-boxing but w/e. I feel some comments made here require input from a different point-of-view:

I think people perceive a problem when there isn't one.

Indeed there is no problem. But that is because it is just a stress test and even with multiboxers the server is not decently populated. From mass-botting to a limit of the amount of combat areas that can sustain a large amount of multi-boxing, there are quite a few possible negative aspects that seem overlooked.

Mr Merlin, I don't think you have caught the jist of this thread, nobody is trying to banish multi-boxing. Nonetheless I will comment on your point of view because it sounds fairly one-sided so it cannot go unchallenged.

I could not resist jumping in on this subject! First off yes I run 2 computers and almost always play 2 toons and that is my choice. If someone wants to play just 1 toon that is there choice and if someone wants to play 50 toons, well once again that is their choice.

We really are not on the same line of thought here. I will give you an open question: If you give a kid the choice to have 3 candy bars or just one, what will it take?

I have never understood why it is the players that only play one toon almost alway look down on the players that like to play 2 or more toons!

Nobody is looking down on multi-boxers here and like I said before I will multi-box when it becomes this attractive/neccesary.

That it is neccesary is because it's a classic example of 'you don't bring a knife to a gunfight'.

3 toons firing is always better than one...

Added to this the majority of players are planning on multi-boxing, so who really has a choice?

[Tyran]

People, it is all about freedom of choice here and we should never take away a players choice in how many toons they play.

Again, we are at opposite ends of thought. The fact that multi-boxing is going to made so easy is not giving a choice to a player when it would be dumb not to.

Also, if for some unknown reason players are forsed to play one toon or you make the mobs treat multi-toon players different in any way you will see EnB become a ghost town real quick.

Consider that 3 accounts per person means a server will be at max capacity three times quicker. One would probably need to add three times the number of mobs/orefields to equalize that. I'm not sure if that will be pretty.

but on that same note more realistically how can the mob determine your multiboxing? versus playing with a friend or family member in the same house under the same external ip?

You may want to read the thread more carefully as no such thing has been suggested. The idea was that rarer loot mobs possess skills like summon and fold space to make multi-boxing, at least for high-end mob encounters, less feasible.

The way this thread seems to be going it looks like multi-boxing will be a norm in the emulator. There is nothing much to do against it and that is acceptable. The only point of this thread was to suggest not letting multi-boxing also have an edge with high end mobs.

[Suricata79[IS]]

Well, all I can do is echo what I said previously, that mobs are starting to get skills now, and some high level mobs have skills that will make it harder for people to fight them whilst multiboxing, like menace and summon, but these skills are been added as thats what the mobs had, any changes that hurt multi-boxing is purely co-incidental. As for the high level mobs, you wil find that once you get to the mid 50's, groups will be better for farming, and ideally, you'd want groups where all the players are there. I'm certainly not going to tone down mobs to be multi-box friendly though :-)

[bondct]

tyran why do u care so much that you want to physically hurt people that multi-box as the title of this post suggest... did a multi boxer pee in your corn flakes or cut you off on the road... what gives... seriously... and as far as the server filling up 3x as fast... how about lets see it before we act on it...

right now we are lucky if we have 200 online at once (only 162 as I write this post)... including multi-boxers... did you ever stop to consider that the actual amount of regular players could possibly be under 100 actual individual people... that would mean that if we all sextuplet boxed (thats 6 boxing for those of lower intelligence)... there would still be room for 400 more players on the server...

and just to be clear... I am not suggesting we make the server multi-box friendly... however mobs need to be tweaked or the game changed then do it... all I am saying is there is no reason to go out on a vendetta against multi-boxers... cuz in the end... that kind of action just hurts everyone...

wow this is an ugly thread... sure we dont want to close it

[bondct]

oh and as far as needing more ore fields or mobs... do you actually play this game... its like a ghost town in most places... I went out and got 3 martyers hearts in 2 hours and didnt see so much as one other player... in live that area was so camped you hadda run like a maniac to get the L46 kills... same thing on ardunne planet with mining etc... so again... it would almost be refreshing to see so many people on the server that there was a lack of sumtin to kill or mine...

[Tyran]

Dear Avani,

Sorry you feel so deeply about this, but if you write messages with your emotions you ain't makin' a lotta sense

For example, you use figures of the stress test as a direct measurement of what the playerbase will be post-launch.

But the truth of the matter is that only a limited amount of people play now because most of us do not like the prospect of p-wipes.

Thank you

[bondct]

you can try and sweet talk me all you want and play the cool cucumber... but in the end... a cucumber is just a phalic symbol... you wrote the word HURT and you can try and spin it all you want and paint yourself as the knight in white armor with an army of doves swooping down to save enb by slaying the evil multiboxers... but we all see you for who and what you really are...

and you can make whatever excuses you want to boost your ego in the process "But the truth of the matter is that only a limited amount of people play now because most of us do not like the prospect of p-wipes" <barf> but...

Dear Sweet Tyran,

I am so sorry about last night... please forgive me for cheating on you... you know I will always you... that wasnt me last night... it must have been the booze talking...

Thank You

Thank You

Thank You

<oh, I think I just threw up in my mouth a little>

[Tyran]

Dear Avani,

I hardly think you can talk semantics,

tyran why do u care so much that you want to physically hurt people that multi-box as the title of this post suggest...

It is a bit strange accusing someone of wanting to physically hurt multi-boxers. But anyway, if you read the title carefully it says "How to hurt multi-boxing", not How to hurt multi-boxers. There is subtle difference there.

This brings me to another point,

You still have not even tried, or been able to produce a single counter-argument to anything I have said. Yet you reply to my every post in a rather odd manner...

So if you want to bicker at me then go right ahead. However, you may end up revealing to us more about yourself then you would like.

Cheers,

Tyran

[seekeronos]

Some point (which I hope I am sharign from a rational standpoint:

A. there wold be no need to add additional mobs or orefields on account of tri-boxers (I chose this specifically based on the premise that "most people will tend to work right at the stipulated limit of three accounts from the same IP).

If we are talking one human driving three clients (regardless of whether it is a multi-client login on the same machine, three separate PCs running Emu, or any combination thereof)...it would be pretty insane to competently manage all three toons in the same group, and nearly impossible in different acivities. With very few exceptions, humans can only do one series of things really well at a time.

Case in point - I duo-box whilst hunting Voltois (for xp'ing both toons). Currently, I can solo and kill the L60 voltoi fairly well on my PW, and probably better than I can when duo-boxing, since I do not have to worry about whether the TT is goingto get two-shotted by the L60, or worse if one of the other straggler mobs aggros her.

If she does get aggro, I have to warp her away to a safe nav point (takes time away from the PW) and then deal with the add(s) and then bring her back into the group xp bubble (if needed - more time away from spanking mobs).

Obviously, the most effective solution will be a group with two or more humans driving the two or more toons.

Same goes for mining: when my TS mines, I drag the TT or the JE along to leech xp and act as an ore cart (in safer zones, I'll yank/warp/unwarp to float the ores and let the junior toon pull it in or the explore xp)

B. "More guns in the gun fight". A setup where tri-boxer mounts a PP-PW-PS (unholy amounts of firepower plus healing) sounds prety cool. And it could certainly outgun any single-boxer. But that tri-boxer would have to scramble like mad to try to deny a camp to a single boxer or two competing for the same mobs, and vs. an organized group of single boxers, forget it.

C. Suricata (and possibly another dev) has stated his intention to tweak mob AI and skills to be harder to overcome, effectively forcing players to group against L50+ mobs, without respect to n-boxing... so this whole argument is moving toward being moot.

A mob spamming menace/summon/teleport/multi-hack/grav-link etc. will overcome group formations that only players focusing on one particular toon will be able to adjust to: by default, it will deter multi-boxers who do not have the competency to maintain their formations and DPS.

The way i understand Suricata's intent - he is not actively seeking to nerf/hurt multi-boxing, but he is not going to help it either.

He just wants us to rely upon each other a bit more for overcoming the challenges of end-game combat

Solo-boxing, I'd strip mine the field pretty fast and dispensing of most guardians rather handily (getting orefield guardian aggro is an even worse affair when dragging the junior toon along since I do better to keep her in formation whilst kiting the guardian - and heaven help me if I have a smart mob now that tries to summon or menace me, and then go after Junior...)

If anything, dragging a junior toon along will *slow* down things for most people, giving single boxers of equivalent level the advantage in many cases.

[r8rsfans75]

For example, you use figures of the stress test as a direct measurement of what the playerbase will be post-launch.

I'm just wondering what indications you have that the playerbase will increase at all once the game actually does go "live". Its not like the game is going to get re-released in stores or anything, the players that have left (be it for p-wipes or whatever) there is no reason to believe once the game goes "live" that they will come running back in droves.

Edit: I will still be here, though

Edited July 15, 2010 by Grendwal

[Seeker]

"most people will tend to work right at the stipulated limit of three accounts from the same IP).

Is the BOLD part actually true? If so, I guess me and my kids are breaking the rules. There are five of us total, all from the same IP. What gives?

[C Del[IS]]

Two Seekers?

You're allowed three accounts per forum account, of which each person is really only supposed to have one, which really nobody follows. Technically, it's a rule, but we really don't enforce it at all. The point of this all is so that people don't use more than three characters at once because, even though I don't mind multiboxing (I do it), people who fill up whole groups of themselves are ridiculous.

[Jamosite]

Some people really enjoy playing with themselves.

its not a bad thing really, especially if they keep themselves busy.

I guess we all learned something today. and knowing is half the battle

.

[garblesoup]

Mr Merlin, I don't think you have caught the jist of this thread, nobody is trying to banish multi-boxing

Riggghhhht . . . that's why the title of this thread is "How to hurt multi-boxing".

[C Del[IS]]

lol

Why don't we all just hold hands, sing Kumbayah, and stop worrying about it. I can't help but feel this thread is heading down a dark path.

[garblesoup]

Is the BOLD part actually true? If so, I guess me and my kids are breaking the rules. There are five of us total, all from the same IP. What gives?

CHEATERS!!!!!

[seekeronos]

Two Seekers?

You're allowed three accounts per forum account, of which each person is really only supposed to have one, which really nobody follows. Technically, it's a rule, but we really don't enforce it at all. The point of this all is so that people don't use more than three characters at once because, even though I don't mind multiboxing (I do it), people who fill up whole groups of themselves are ridiculous.

I am -Seeker-, the other fellow is Seeker.

No relation.

[Tyran]

I'm just wondering what indications you have that the playerbase will increase at all once the game actually does go "live". Its not like the game is going to get re-released in stores or anything, the players that have left (be it for p-wipes or whatever) there is no reason to believe once the game goes "live" that they will come running back in droves.

Edit: I will still be here, though

Store released games are a not the end of the world.

There are plenty of games that have never been in the stores but have been very succesful. Take Heroes of Newerth as an example. They used word of mouth to spread news of their game and weeks prior to launch had over a million registered accounts. However, that game costs money so I would doubt that those numbers were kept up when it launched.

And no, I am not insinuating a million players will come here, just that word of mouth of a good game, which enb is, cannot be underestimated.

How this explains the current 200 max population is quite simple. There is not a lot to say about the emulator other than it is just a stress test, a lot of stuff is not ready, and there are p-wipes lurking around every corner. But closer to launch a different story can be told.

Also, there are nearly 10,000 registered users on this forum. In all likelyhood it is not an accurate representation of the numbers that will play. But what it does show is that there is certainly animo for the emulator beyond those several hundred players that keep the population at 200.

Riggghhhht . . . that's why the title of this thread is "How to hurt multi-boxing".

You may want to read the initial post more carefully and perhaps you find this line of particular interest:

So I'm not calling for an end to multi-boxing, just that it does not become so attractive that it would be silly not to multibox...

Is this not clear enough?

As a final note, what this thread shows more than anything is certain people blindly replying to the topic name. However, if they would at the very least have read the original post, then they may not have replied so emotionally.

[seekeronos]

You may want to read the initial post more carefully and perhaps you find this line of particular interest:

So I'm not calling for an end to multi-boxing, just that it does not become so attractive that it would be silly not to multibox...

Is this not clear enough?

As a final note, what this thread shows more than anything is certain people blindly replying to the topic name. However, if they would at the very least have read the original post, then they may not have replied so emotionally.

Emphasis added.

I have to admit, the title name definitely grabbed my attention. Though from what I am reading, your point of view is not very far away from that of the particular dev (Suricata) who is presently tweaking mobs for their stats and skills and AI, nor very far from many of the other devs who have commented about AI changes.

You might desire a more aggressive use of mob skills and AI for boss mobs and CL60+ mobs to discourage player and groups from bringing along multi-boxed toons; the devs say that the have no plans to "hurt multi-boxing", nor to assist multi-boxers.

I say this to everyone: the act that Tienbau re-worked the launcher to allow multi-client/single PC logins (thereby eliminating the need for virtualization middleware) says volumes that the Emulator Project isn't out to kill multiboxing, at least the present time.

That said, it should make sense to most people that with mob skills and advanced AI in place - things will get a little more difficult for the hexa-boxing freaky guy who hasn't been out of his basement since 1987.

Expect the days of a triboxer easily "soloing" things like Controller and GoBB and so-forth to come to an end.

That's not to say that a triboxer may not still solo the engame stuff... but it won't be as easy as three or more individual gamers working together as a group.

[rabidkiller]

no worries after this thread dies he'll start yet another one

[riiskit]

Hi folks,

Having fun....many flavors of it out there and completely subjective.

I triple box...3 computers 3 monitors 2 keyboards etc etc, I also triple boxed in live. It's actually not that easy to triple box and can be quite a challenge depending on which type of mob you're engaged with. In live there were many mob skills which made dual/triple boxing almost impossible and that's a good thing. I triple box for the challenge and the fast pace and always ask others if I'm upsetting a quest they are progressing and always yield if so. I have spent many an hour looking for a reason why dual/triple boxing might impact the gaming of others and cannot find much other than how it actually looks to others when they see a Monsoon convention...usually others offer up some witty comment designed to create more of a smile on my face...they succeed...and many thanks to those making sure there is a smile behind one of the monsoons.

My play style is such that I spend about 30 minutes playing and 30-40 minutes in a horizontal fashion to alleviate the severe pain from a seriously messed up spine...a truck(at full city speed) t-boned me in a small sports car 6 years ago. 16 hours per day in bed. I have tried grouping and actually prefer a group but...tis not an option that plays out very well. At times I set my leader to warp to a gate whilst I get horizontal, which happens very quickly and without warning...sitting is not a good thing for me. I have broken soooo many groups over the years of playing mmos and usually do not get re-invited from then on. It's a very lonely style of play...I have no choice...err I guess I do have a choice...to not play. I found a solution to my perception of pain supplied by a caregiver many years ago...distraction...one toon not-so-much...2 toons getting closer...3 toons a very magical moment for this gamer.

Well that's my sad story...oh woe is me...yada yada yada

good journeys to all, ~Monsoon

[Tyran]

Emphasis added.

I have to admit, the title name definitely grabbed my attention. Though from what I am reading, your point of view is not very far away from that of the particular dev (Suricata) who is presently tweaking mobs for their stats and skills and AI, nor very far from many of the other devs who have commented about AI changes.

Thanks for helping point this out and indeed what Suricata said ended the thread at #16 for me.

The title is ofcourse a puller, I decided on it because I feel we are being gently pushed towards multiboxing and this would obviously draw attention. I did not create this topic because I deny others the comfort of multi-boxing, but because I think it will be very unlike live for everyone to be forced into it.

It is puzzling how the title caused not just one, but multiple members (and not just any members!) to completely ignore the initial post and throw rants about. At any rate I am sorry that the title caused certain people to lose it.

Now, I understand that those involved do not apologize, their overreaction is embarassing enough. So no hard feelings from me.

Finally, if an Admin wants and nobody has anything further to add, then you have my blessings to lock the thread.