My favorite mining race is ...

[Lars[IS]]

I'm all for poprocks having no give away signature. As someone who mined in live, and I'm back to mining now, I have to admit that I don't understand why you would play a game and then program a script to make it so you don't actually have to play. I'd be all for the game having a way to determine when a macro is being used to mine a roid and turning it into a poprock.

Hello,

Well what I use to do was about 2 or 3 times a week as I was getting ready to log off and go to bed (not playing) I would start a macro and normally do the gas fields in glenn. When I woke up my ships cargo holds would be filled with stacks of 300 of gasses. Now as to running one whole I was at my computer, no. Now before I get a bunch of anti=macro post you have to remember that this was a normal thing in live and their was always about 10 to 15 players running them. Since coming to this project I have changed my views on running a macro. Now you also have to remember that back then we did pay for our accounts and why not get what you could out of it!

Anyway, I do not see too many players trying to run a macro here for mining because the way mining is setup now it would be hard to do so, but not imposible. I will do what I can within reason to try to keep players from doing so and one of the best ways is to use pop rocks. This is why I want pop rocks to look the same as normal roids. But first we got to get them in and hopefully it will be soon. TTYL :-)

Merlin

[bondct]

I think that poprocks should be field type based as well... what I mean is that there are plenty of fields of useless ores or less popular that people want to just quietly mine... there are also fields of ores say where you get zet ammo ores that are hot...

now selling or refining trash ores really dont get you anything... so let people do what they want in those fields imo... and imo the fields with really popular ores can be a little more dangerous... make both groups happy at once? maybe... I mean lets face it... mining was never really the best way to level or make credits and I am not sure if thats gonna change... so if you are out there mining... you are just casually playing or you need ammo

[Desperada]

Something to note on pop rocks. Is there any possibility of the hulks not being eligible for popping? While it was in live, in all honesty it was one of the most infuriating things about the entire game for me. It was like, holy crap a l9 leopard spots device is in that hulk!!!! Warp up to it. Boom. *punches a hole in the wall* I would honestly love for pop rocks to be expanded to other forms of roids rather than being left as incredibly disheartening F-U's on hulks. The fact that the good hulks always seemed to do it just added insult to injury.

[Lars[IS]]

I think that poprocks should be field type based as well... what I mean is that there are plenty of fields of useless ores or less popular that people want to just quietly mine... there are also fields of ores say where you get zet ammo ores that are hot...

now selling or refining trash ores really dont get you anything... so let people do what they want in those fields imo... and imo the fields with really popular ores can be a little more dangerous... make both groups happy at once? maybe... I mean lets face it... mining was never really the best way to level or make credits and I am not sure if thats gonna change... so if you are out there mining... you are just casually playing or you need ammo

Hello,

Well I kind of agree with you, "But", right now money is way out-of-ballanced and we all know that! I for one have way over 2 billion credits and I don't even try! So when money is so easy to get most builders and I have lvl 9 builders in all areas, just go buy the parts for anything under lvl 7 items. I would like to see it kind of get back to the way it was in Live where I also had a lvl 9 builders in that builders go back to making their comps instead of just buying them all. I have an idea on how to do this, but I am sure players will not like it! My idea:

Make it so that no matter what you build, if you use comps from a vender @ 100% then the best your build would be is 150%. Now ofcourse if it is a non-man comp then that would count as a 200% one. This would go for making ammo also in that if you just go and buy a stack of comps to make ammo the best you will get is 150% ammo! Now, if you use PM comps then you would get 200% on your builds. I have never understood why you get ammo @ 200% when you use 100% parts! Now by doing it this way it would change the thinking about making comps and make 99% of the ore useful no matter what lvl the ore was. In doing the ore fields I have found tht almost all the ore is used for something and why not make ore something other then just vender trash. In the real world if you use crapy stuff to make something you end up with a crapy thing. Kind of like going out to buy a Rolls compared to buying a Kia! I am not saying Kia's are crapy cars, but it was the easiest one to spell! :-) I know I will get all these posts now saying what a bad idea this is and this is not the way it was in Live, but why not improve on something that was in live to make it just alittle more like real life. Ok, flame away! TTYL :-)

Merlin

[seekeronos]

I think that poprocks should be field type based as well... what I mean is that there are plenty of fields of useless ores or less popular that people want to just quietly mine... there are also fields of ores say where you get zet ammo ores that are hot...

now selling or refining trash ores really dont get you anything... so let people do what they want in those fields imo... and imo the fields with really popular ores can be a little more dangerous... make both groups happy at once? maybe... I mean lets face it... mining was never really the best way to level or make credits and I am not sure if thats gonna change... so if you are out there mining... you are just casually playing or you need ammo

Totally agree. +5

[seekeronos]

Also +1 on the hulks: if a pop roid has an über item in it - then put the über item on the loot table for the monster that comes out of the roid, at the very least.

[Terrell [BT]]

Also +1 on the hulks: if a pop roid has an über item in it - then put the über item on the loot table for the monster that comes out of the roid, at the very least.

Not necessarily uber items, but if the jack-a-roid mobs have something desirable in their loot tables, apropraite to their level, I think that would be a good thing for all miners.

[seekeronos]

Make it so that no matter what you build, if you use comps from a vender @ 100% then the best your build would be is 150%. Now of course if it is a non-man comp then that would count as a 200% one. This would go for making ammo also in that if you just go and buy a stack of comps to make ammo the best you will get is 150% ammo!

In theory, that would be great... but I must vigourously disagree concerning ammo.

There'd have to be a lot of extra math and storage space issues since to accommodate for mixed percentages of ammo.

For example, on my PW... I get gun jams all the time. On one of my loadouts, I serve two of my guns with the same type of ammo.

Typically, I use looted parts (Hades PSC-XP and Brimstone Elixirs) along with vendor comps to this ammo.

Now if we nerf the output of this to be variable... I might wind up with several stacks like 133%, 150%, 142%, etc.

Try to re-balance these after a gun jams in the heat of combat? I think not.

Now, if we make all ammo that is either vendor-sourced comps/loot comps to automagically pop out at 150%, with no variance, that'd be a little more palatable, as stacks and partial stacks could be more easily shuffled.

Otherwise, we might find the server population morphing to Jenquai toons or leveling up beams in disproportionate numbers

[nimr0dbbow[IS]]

... add random-Wormhole player to pop-roid effects ...

[bAD BYAKHEE]

... ok maybe not ...

[Lars[IS]]

In theory, that would be great... but I must vigourously disagree concerning ammo.

There'd have to be a lot of extra math and storage space issues since to accommodate for mixed percentages of ammo.

For example, on my PW... I get gun jams all the time. On one of my loadouts, I serve two of my guns with the same type of ammo.

Typically, I use looted parts (Hades PSC-XP and Brimstone Elixirs) along with vendor comps to this ammo.

Now if we nerf the output of this to be variable... I might wind up with several stacks like 133%, 150%, 142%, etc.

Try to re-balance these after a gun jams in the heat of combat? I think not.

Now, if we make all ammo that is either vendor-sourced comps/loot comps to automagically pop out at 150%, with no variance, that'd be a little more palatable, as stacks and partial stacks could be more easily shuffled.

Otherwise, we might find the server population morphing to Jenquai toons or leveling up beams in disproportionate numbers

Hello,

Ok, you would have a total at most 3 different ammo lvl's 100, 150 & 200%

100% = Vender bought ammo

150% = ammo w/vender comps

200% = ammo w/pm comps & non-man vender comps

So basiclly to get 200% ammo you would have to use parts that were PM & the non-man comps would reg as 200% so non-man comps would be as if you made them.

Anyway, it is just an idea to try to help give the comp builders a reason to make all those comps we spent countless hours getting & mapping. Right now Merlin, my TT only builds maybe once or twice a week when it comes to comps and why should he if I can always get a 200% item from 100% comps!! TTYL :-)

Merlin

[Terrell [BT]]

Hello,

Ok, you would have a total at most 3 different ammo lvl's 100, 150 & 200%

100% = Vender bought ammo

150% = ammo w/vender comps

200% = ammo w/pm comps & non-man vender comps

So basiclly to get 200% ammo you would have to use parts that were PM & the non-man comps would reg as 200% so non-man comps would be as if you made them.

Anyway, it is just an idea to try to help give the comp builders a reason to make all those comps we spent countless hours getting & mapping. Right now Merlin, my TT only builds maybe once or twice a week when it comes to comps and why should he if I can always get a 200% item from 100% comps!! TTYL :-)

Merlin

How about modding this a little. Say count non-manufacturable parts as 200% parts in all builds, for purpose of determining quality. It's a pain to build something, repeatedly, using PM parts for all manu parts, and then have it come out at 170% quality with both your build reactors and build comps skills maxed and OL150.

I don't think it should be hard and fast impossible to get 200% builds when you don't use PM comps. For example if my Scout needs to build a L4 device, she should be able to consistently hit 200% quality with vendor parts, given that she has maxed the build devices skill and has printed a few devices. Now if she has PM parts her chances of hitting 200% quality should be significantly higher, but I don't think it should be impossible with non-PM parts.

[Demitroy]

... add random-Wormhole player to pop-roid effects ...

[bAD BYAKHEE]

... ok maybe not ...

Maybe not a full Wormhole, but I think a fold effect could be interesting. End up being more of a nuisance than anything else, unless it jumps you right next to that 50+ manes.

Edited June 28, 2010 by Demitroy

[seekeronos]

How about modding this a little. Say count non-manufacturable parts as 200% parts in all builds, for purpose of determining quality. It's a pain to build something, repeatedly, using PM parts for all manu parts, and then have it come out at 170% quality with both your build reactors and build comps skills maxed and OL150.

I don't think it should be hard and fast impossible to get 200% builds when you don't use PM comps. For example if my Scout needs to build a L4 device, she should be able to consistently hit 200% quality with vendor parts, given that she has maxed the build devices skill and has printed a few devices. Now if she has PM parts her chances of hitting 200% quality should be significantly higher, but I don't think it should be impossible with non-PM parts.

I really would not be comfortable with changing the current build scheme, especially for ammo like this.

Terrell's got a very good point here - as a L9 builder using known and available items to enhance my build quality, I should have a *little* chance of producing sub-200% items with PM and non-manu parts, with modifiers like station faction affecting it when that gets patched in.

Conversely, as that same L9 builder, I should *always* get a 200% build on anything using vendor parts through and including L7 items, and perhaps risk an expected quality range of 175%-190% with vendor only items at L8 (while using 200% PM parts and non-manu parts in that case would guarantee a 200% end product.

But as for ammo... that's gonna be a bit messy, if not a little annoying to deal with, even with 100%/150%/200% ammo quality spreads.

[Klyde]

Guys, as much as "live" had wrong with it, there was one thing going for it that overcomplicating this ST will definetly do... remove the "fun factor".

Lets not get crazy with worrying about build qualities for crap like ammo, or even low level gear with high build skills. That idea to me sounds like removing alot of the "fun" and "easy" from the game. Are there not bigger fish to fry? Like a working game close to what live was, and by that I mean, missions working as they did, jobs, raids, quests like Zeke's, etc.

I'm all for improving on what the original game had, where it didn't work.

Keeping the "fun factor" is tantamount to any changes to make things more challenging, IMHO.

And Seeker is right, ammo at anything besides 100 or 200% would be a disaster with the already small cargo holds and vaults.

I don't do a lot of building for market, mostly for myself and guildies, but, overcomplicating things to make builds challenging, well I'll just stop there.

[Terrell [BT]]

Another point w/r/t ammo building, if you have a poor quality of a device, reactor, shield, engine, or weapon you can always dismantle it and rebuild it, the same cannot be said for ammo.

[bondct]

imho building in the emu is already totally screwed up compared to live and really not that much fun... at the worst please just leave it where it is... 3 tries on a L2 sculptor the other night with max skill... puhlez... thats like saying can someone help me open the milk... and the percents on builds are much lower compared to live... (although we did get dismantle fixed when you way out level an item)...

some people may think it makes the game more challenging... but actually imo its just drudgery... all you do is invest skill points and push a button and throw yourself at the mercy of the computer... its not like you are trying to push a certain sequence of buttons in a certain amount of time to get Aurons GREAT Overdrive!

[Yuritau]

I'm with Klyde on this one. Making me deal with ammo at ANY OTHER quality than 100% or 200% serves only to add frustrations and hassles that I have no interest in.

[Kenu [CDEV]]

this seems a bit off topic, but the manufacturing % rates do seem a bit off. I remember in live where things the same level as your build level ranged from about 175-200%. at least half the time the item you built was 200%. Items like the ID matrix and duct tape helped raise this chance to around 75%.

Right now it seems like none of my items are coming out at 200% if they are at my build level.

[Lars[IS]]

this seems a bit off topic, but the manufacturing % rates do seem a bit off. I remember in live where things the same level as your build level ranged from about 175-200%. at least half the time the item you built was 200%. Items like the ID matrix and duct tape helped raise this chance to around 75%.

Right now it seems like none of my items are coming out at 200% if they are at my build level.

Hello,

Besides missing devices that helped builders you also have to remember that in Live Faction also played a part. If you had good faction at the station you were building at you would also get a high %. Other factors were also being grouped, but different players remember this differently. TTYL :-)

Merlin

[Suricata79[IS]]

I know its off-topic, but the issue with building right now is that using non PM comps are having too much of an impact on the item quality. It did make a difference in live (as it should), but right now the penalty is too big, so yup, it could certsinly do with a bit more tweaking, the overall way things are calculated is about right, just a few numbers need slight adjustments.