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Player vs Player and Graphical Update


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The solution to this topic may lie with an erotic dream I had the other night about meeting a copy of myself.

Two universes that interact with each other, one pvp...the other pve. You can switch over any time. And...the payoff is ofcourse greater in the pvp universe.

Only kidding ofcourse.

For real...PvP would be about the largest guilds as there is prettymuch zero skill to pressing fire while your guns auto attack your target.

In other words it would get really boring really quick as everyone would be joining supersized guilds.

Tbh I think the pvp would be worse than in wow....lol

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Tbh I think the pvp would be worse than in wow....lol

please dont take this the wrong way, be we dont tolerate that kind of language here... see the underscored bold word above... try and keep posts clean :(:):D

Edited by Avani
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Two things with this.

The first thing is ridiculous. No one else is making an EnB private server, and no one else would certainly make anything remotely close to whats been done here, so that's stupid in my opinion to list that as a feasible option.

Well I don't care how "ridiculous" you think it is it's true; calling it "stupid" is hardly in keeping with your earlier lament about the lack of civility. Really, if you are going to say somebody is wrong and then call their statement stupid it would be worth your while to do a little research first - there's this new tool called "Google" . . . I hear it's quite popular with all the kids on the intertubes . . .

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Well I don't care how "ridiculous" you think it is it's true; calling it "stupid" is hardly in keeping with your earlier lament about the lack of civility. Really, if you are going to say somebody is wrong and then call their statement stupid it would be worth your while to do a little research first - there's this new tool called "Google" . . . I hear it's quite popular with all the kids on the intertubes . . .

The lack of civility there showed how blatantly obtuse the idea of joining another "Earth and Beyond" private server is for PvP.

I wouldn't think of it, nor do I care enough. I hope no one else here would go to another poorly designed private server with no community, either. It seems... Counter-intuitive, as this argument was for this private server, not another, to put it simply. To better THIS server, not some other knock offs.

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The lack of civility there showed how blatantly obtuse the idea of joining another "Earth and Beyond" private server is for PvP.

I wouldn't think of it, nor do I care enough. I hope no one else here would go to another poorly designed private server with no community, either. It seems... Counter-intuitive, as this argument was for this private server, not another, to put it simply. To better THIS server, not some other knock offs.

Still doesn't change the fact that other servers do indeed exist, contrary to your initial claim . . . and subsequent labeling of said posting as "stupid". The polite thing to do would be to apologize . . . as long as we are discussing civility.

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I highly doubt open player-versus-player will be implemented any time soon, if ever, owing to the fact that sweeping, game-changing modifications would need to take place in order to achieve a semblance of balance and fairness. Part of what makes E&B what it is, is that combat is not everything, and each class has activities at which it specializes. On the other hand, I look forward to the eventual implementation of the Arenas; even there, player-versus-player action was defined in terms of consensual duels between two individuals or teams. In the latter case, team strategy and tactics were involved and each class brought something to the table, maintaining the "cooperative" aspect of the game, and it was more like a game of basketball than a UFC match. That model was, in my view, superior to what most contemporary MMO games offer in terms of player-versus-player action.

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I highly doubt open player-versus-player will be implemented any time soon, if ever, owing to the fact that sweeping, game-changing modifications would need to take place in order to achieve a semblance of balance and fairness. Part of what makes E&B what it is, is that combat is not everything, and each class has activities at which it specializes. On the other hand, I look forward to the eventual implementation of the Arenas; even there, player-versus-player action was defined in terms of consensual duels between two individuals or teams. In the latter case, team strategy and tactics were involved and each class brought something to the table, maintaining the "cooperative" aspect of the game, and it was more like a game of basketball than a UFC match. That model was, in my view, superior to what most contemporary MMO games offer in terms of player-versus-player action.

+5

Edited by -Seeker-
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I highly doubt open player-versus-player will be implemented any time soon, if ever, owing to the fact that sweeping, game-changing modifications would need to take place in order to achieve a semblance of balance and fairness. Part of what makes E&B what it is, is that combat is not everything, and each class has activities at which it specializes. On the other hand, I look forward to the eventual implementation of the Arenas; even there, player-versus-player action was defined in terms of consensual duels between two individuals or teams. In the latter case, team strategy and tactics were involved and each class brought something to the table, maintaining the "cooperative" aspect of the game, and it was more like a game of basketball than a UFC match. That model was, in my view, superior to what most contemporary MMO games offer in terms of player-versus-player action.

I dont mind arenas being brought back, as long as this game is never, EVER balanced around PvP. Back in Live so many people cried about this skill, or that class being overpowered in arena and tried to get them nerfed or buffed. This game will always be PVE orientated, with classes and skills to have fun with that. If you want to PVP or take your toons to arena, fine so be it, but realize it will never be balanced. Just my 2 cents from someone who was fed up with all the pvp crybabies in Live.

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Still doesn't change the fact that other servers do indeed exist, contrary to your initial claim . . . and subsequent labeling of said posting as "stupid". The polite thing to do would be to apologize . . . as long as we are discussing civility.

I apologize, I'm not sure I had my head quite wrapped around the entire conversation from you to begin with though.

So if the proposal for Player vs Player is far too daunting, or even entirely unwanted (class balancing), I guess the PvP'ers will just have to make do with Arena?

From the sounds of it, though, Earth and Beyond has been and always will be a cooperative game.

Just as a side note though, if open PvP were to occur... And you played a weaker combat class, wouldn't that be the point?

Like... Say you chose a Terran Trader, and end up getting ganked by a Progen Warrior. Technically, what's wrong with that? (aside from it being annoying/griefing) You chose a weaker combat class on purpose. The main goals of a Terran Trader would be to use his speed and get out of there! Not try to stand toe to toe with a Warrior.

Whereas an Enforcer or (maybe a defender) could back you up?

I guess what I'm saying is, if PvP was implemented, who says they'd balance the classes? Each one is good for a different area of gameplay PvE wise, if PvP came around, you'd still have the same strengths and weaknesses, you'd just have more threat leaving star bases, etc.

Edit:

This gave me an idea, probably a really goofy laughable one, but what about on the ground fighting? Loop animations, add guns in the hands of the characters, etc... Perhaps infected starbases that you have to land in and walk around and kill monsters in?

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I’m all for controlled PVP. The arena Idea was a start but it would be nice if there were other battlegrounds and PVP contests. Capture the flag, defend the stronghold, free for all, and domination are a few I can think of.

The devs cold setup a recruiting station at each station where PVP players would enlist in the battle field of their choice. Players could join as an individual or as a team. When the minimum quota is reached the players would be teleported to the battle ground and the match would begin.

Each battle ground would have a min and max number of players that can join depending on the size of the battle field. Battlefield points could be awarded that can be used to punches gear from battlefield reward NPCs.

One of the battlefield rewards I would like to see is Skill Points. This could be tied to the number of kills the warrior gets or have skill points cost xx number of battlefield reward points + cash. We could also give combat XP based on the number of kills a player gets. This would give some incentive to players to tryout their skill in the battlefields.

A system like this would insulate the care bears from the warriors.

Akela

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Like... Say you chose a Terran Trader, and end up getting ganked by a Progen Warrior. Technically, what's wrong with that? (aside from it being annoying/griefing) You chose a weaker combat class on purpose. The main goals of a Terran Trader would be to use his speed and get out of there! Not try to stand toe to toe with a Warrior.

Of course that class choice was made PRIOR to any knowledge of PvP being a game element - that's key.

The arenas in Live were fun - they gave a healthy outlet for those that wanted to engage in consensual PvP and would probably be much better today given that the datacomm characteristics back then were often plagued by lag, whereas today most everyone has a reasonable broadband-type connection. I'm in the large-ish group that would not want to see non-consensual PvP in EnB and believes that it was a cooperative community that was the best part of the game and what's drawn me back since the Emu became available. Ganksters have Eve and are welcome to it - it wasn't for me.

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they gave a healthy outlet for those that wanted to engage in consensual PvP and would probably be much better today given that the datacomm characteristics back then were often plagued by lag, whereas today most everyone has a reasonable broadband-type connection.

ahh the good old days of

/cl_maxpackets 1000 where whoevers computer was physically closer to the server won

and

/shownormals 1 where you could see through walls ;)

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I’m all for controlled PVP. The arena Idea was a start but it would be nice if there were other battlegrounds and PVP contests. Capture the flag, defend the stronghold, free for all, and domination are a few I can think of.

The devs cold setup a recruiting station at each station where PVP players would enlist in the battle field of their choice. Players could join as an individual or as a team. When the minimum quota is reached the players would be teleported to the battle ground and the match would begin.

Each battle ground would have a min and max number of players that can join depending on the size of the battle field. Battlefield points could be awarded that can be used to punches gear from battlefield reward NPCs.

A system like this would insulate the care bears from the warriors.

Akela

Agreed.

I'd like to see combat zones set up that rely upon a cooperative effort to win, rather than a straight-up gankfest.

The Arena was a good prototype for it.

The concept could be refined (no pun intended) to be a more long term thing, with several zones set up as "conquest zones" where players could join a conflict faction. These factions are not necessarily aligned with the starting factions, but could use the model developed for Moto:

Terran Alliance

Progen Combine

Jenquai...?

- Perhaps the as-yet-undeclared Jenquai faction - (might I suggest the "Shadow Hand" or some kind of ninja-esque thing for disaffected, militant Jens/Shinwas who would really really like to nuke the stuffings out of Mars, and kick the Jenquai Hierate around the ruins of Jove City a few times).

Players need not be of the same race as the factions indicate; and players could flag as one faction or another on a temporary basis whilst in these zones; PvP damage should not incur quality damage to equipment, nor lose hull contents.

If PvP could be implemented along those lines, I'm on board;);)

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Like PvP or not, I think that the Devs have already started working on it. If it comes sooner rather than later, I'm sure I will pull up and move on. I think the other server has committed to being as EnB was at sunset. If this is true I'm thinking that I may move my game play time and allegiance, and support (donations) to their efforts. We have a choice now. The choice we have may be why there have been no Devs weighing in on this conversation. I still don’t understand why every game that comes along HAS to have some form of PvP in it? And seriously if it’s PvP you want there are tons of other games that have it, I won’t tell anyone to leave this game, but hey go get your PvP fix and come on back.

Oh, and with only 300 players (with alts) are there really enough players to do any real faction type of PvP? And of those 300 players (with alts) how many even want PvP?

Edited by Mimir
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Like PvP or not, I think that the Devs have already started working on it. If it comes sooner rather than later, I'm sure I will pull up and move on. I think the other server has committed to being as EnB was at sunset. If this is true I'm thinking that I may move my game play time and allegiance, and support (donations) to their efforts. We have a choice now. The choice we have may be why there have been no Devs weighing in on this conversation. I still don’t understand why every game that comes along HAS to have some form of PvP in it? And seriously if it’s PvP you want there are tons of other games that have it, I won’t tell anyone to leave this game, but hey go get your PvP fix and come on back.

Oh, and with only 300 players (with alts) are there really enough players to do any real faction type of PvP? And of those 300 players (with alts) how many even want PvP?

Everytime you post I feel like it's some kind of personal attack...

You're going to continue to rate me bad for this, but whatever. I feel like all of your opinions are "The world revolves around me".

If you're going to keep threatening to quit over PvP, don't bother posting because I made this thread to discuss relative ideas for PvP and grand schemes.

So far, everyone is doing an amazing job posting fantastic ideas that are really indepth and seem exactly like what EnB needs to be successful in both PvE and PvP. But you keep coming back harping with the "I'll just move on"

Go ahead then. Everyone else, even Jarod, has constructive ideas for how PvP can work. That's all this thread was intended for.

Dev's don't want to weigh in because PvP is a very sensitive issue, and it's not one that should be answered with a simple "No PvP at all, or I'm leaving" like you keep giving.

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Like PvP or not, I think that the Devs have already started working on it. If it comes sooner rather than later, I'm sure I will pull up and move on. I think the other server has committed to being as EnB was at sunset. If this is true I'm thinking that I may move my game play time and allegiance, and support (donations) to their efforts. We have a choice now. The choice we have may be why there have been no Devs weighing in on this conversation. I still don’t understand why every game that comes along HAS to have some form of PvP in it? And seriously if it’s PvP you want there are tons of other games that have it, I won’t tell anyone to leave this game, but hey go get your PvP fix and come on back.

Oh, and with only 300 players (with alts) are there really enough players to do any real faction type of PvP? And of those 300 players (with alts) how many even want PvP?

I wouldn't take the fact a dev hasn't wieghed in on this thread as 'absolute' proof we've decided to add PvP. If PvP is added, to the best of my knowledge, it will be restricted to new sectors out on the rim and not all out war like it is in Eve. It certainly won't be anything that is forced on players, thats not what EnB was ever about afterall, that doesn't mean that PvP should be written off entirely though, it was in the live game in the Arena's afterall. Personally I'm not that fond of PvP, but I know some people enjoy it, at the end of the day, it's all about giving people the options. Right now though, there is no difinitive decision on PvP yet, there is more than enough work to do with other systems in the game before moving onto additional systems like PvP.

So keep the ideas flowing, this is just a think tank afterall, if you dislike PvP, then suggest ways that PvP could be added in a way that you wouldn't mind, for example arena's or warzones.

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Everytime you post I feel like it's some kind of personal attack...

You're going to continue to rate me bad for this, but whatever. I feel like all of your opinions are "The world revolves around me".

If you're going to keep threatening to quit over PvP, don't bother posting because I made this thread to discuss relative ideas for PvP and grand schemes.

So far, everyone is doing an amazing job posting fantastic ideas that are really indepth and seem exactly like what EnB needs to be successful in both PvE and PvP. But you keep coming back harping with the "I'll just move on"

Go ahead then. Everyone else, even Jarod, has constructive ideas for how PvP can work. That's all this thread was intended for.

Dev's don't want to weigh in because PvP is a very sensitive issue, and it's not one that should be answered with a simple "No PvP at all, or I'm leaving" like you keep giving.

Really I don't mean to sound like that. In fact I was not responding to you on this post at all. Maybe it's you that feels "The world revolves around me", to attack me for my post??. You seem a bit confrontational with your posts.

In fact go re read your posts. I only expressed my opinion, it differs from yours, so I am attacking you. Ok hows this..

Yipppeeee PvP me want it!!!! It's great, want to get me some lv 10 miner and gank him til he quits.. or wait at a gate and blast him before his loading screen lets him into the game. Yahoooo that sounds great. If you took the time to read my other posts I have offered suggestions on PvP, I have played games with it, and I don't care for it. Deal with it or don't. But me being truthful and saying that if this server goes open friggin PvP I am gone. I already said that if it is something that does not affect my game play then fine, you all can go bash yourselves silly.

Edited by Mimir
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If I remember correctly, (and this is subject to massive error as live was almost 7 years ago), I didn't do PvP very much, but you could only do PvP against someone of similar level (determined as "even" in the targeting window)? Which usually meant PW's usually (stress usually) had a decided advantage.

If anyone here played MCO (another awesome game that EA cancelled after a couple years and decided not to share the server code after sunset), there were class races which you could only bring a car of a certain class and the classes were determined by a horsepower to weight ratio. I would think a similar arena system could be done here where you don't necessarily battle against someone of a similar level, but possibly a similar DPS, or some formula that involves all the factors of shield/hull/DPS etc.

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Really I don't mean to sound like that. In fact I was not responding to you on this post at all. Maybe it's you that feels "The world revolves around me", to attack me for my post??. You seem a bit confrontational with your posts.

In fact go re read your posts. I only expressed my opinion, it differs from yours, so I am attacking you. Ok hows this..

Yipppeeee PvP me want it!!!! It's great, want to get me some lv 10 miner and gank him til he quits.. or wait at a gate and blast him before his loading screen lets him into the game. Yahoooo that sounds great. If you took the time to read my other posts I have offered suggestions on PvP, I have played games with it, and I don't care for it. Deal with it or don't. But me being truthful and saying that if this server goes open friggin PvP I am gone. I already said that if it is something that does not affect my game play then fine, you all can go bash yourselves silly.

:/ Personally I kind of feel as if the last part of your post was frustration and annoyance...

That's not really constructive at all, especially to say "Friggin pvp" and whatnot.

Even if you weren't talking to me, you were still saying the same "Lots of people would quit" as you had said before. We all know you'll quit. It's been established.

Do you have any ideas for PvP actually working out?

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:/ Personally I kind of feel as if the last part of your post was frustration and annoyance...

That's not really constructive at all.

Even if you weren't talking to me, you were still saying the same "Lots of people would quit" as you had said before. We all know you'll quit. It's been established.

Do you have any ideas for PvP actually working out?

Yup frustration that you singled me out. And This last one was directed to you. I didnt say lot's would quit, I said I can only speak for me... READ the posts and NOT between the lines. Now get off my back.

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;) Okay. You don't have to yell at me, man...

If anyone here played MCO (another awesome game that EA cancelled after a couple years and decided not to share the server code after sunset), there were class races which you could only bring a car of a certain class and the classes were determined by a horsepower to weight ratio. I would think a similar arena system could be done here where you don't necessarily battle against someone of a similar level, but possibly a similar DPS, or some formula that involves all the factors of shield/hull/DPS etc.

Yeah! I remember Motor City Online! I liked it, but it was a game I only really got into when I learned it was being canceled. I mean, I played it before I knew about the cancellation, but the cancellation made me really want to play it. EA kills all cool games.

I really think they didnt release the source code to keep any attempt at a MMO Racing Game off the market (Now we have Need For Speed: World... Looks an awful lot like MCO Updated...)

I don't really remember the system that matched the cars, but I do remember really powerful cars getting matched to weak ones sometimes for weird reasons. And yeah, I really like the matching idea of similar engine components, etc. rather than similar level.

Perhaps...

Open PvP...

Except you can only attack people of similar level or starship components unless they flag themselves if they're lower than you.

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Action failed: You have reached your quota of negative votes for the day

O.o there is a maximum? I'm thinking this thread has gotten a bit to nasty if I'm getting that.

Open PvP... Except you can only attack people of similar level or starship components unless they flag themselves if they're lower than you.

This has some semblance of being more reasonable (not sure all of what you mean by this other than lv restrictions on who you can attack). It would definitely solve the issue of cl50 pw camping the je noob section because he's bored. However, I still feel that people would feel its to forced still. Even though you'd be limiting people to similar lvs that wouldn't stop some of the potential conflicts I see coming in this situation. Since combat isn't everything, we should look at how combat would effect the non combat areas.

Explore I'd see taking a major hit from it. Like miners fighting over prime roid fields. JE is supposed to be tops in mining, that's what its designed for, but it most certainly wouldn't be able to compete against another miner class (of same lv) if it came in and decided it wanted the JE's field. Yes JE are well equipped to deal with mobs in ore fields...but lets face it, players are smarter than your average manes. JE uses cloak to escape...manes goes away, player just sits and waits till JE tries mining again and simply repeats till JE gets upset and leaves. JE's only defense against this? Keep your cl low so higher cls couldn't shoot you out of a field...not exactly a balance promoter or fun sounding. It would definitely cripple the JE's ability for certain skills and gear and force them to limit their play (no combat). Mining would be completely destroyed in my opinion if open pvp (even level limited) was allowed. Most find mining currently as nice calming stress relaxer after hard day's work. Worrying if your going to be chased off of your ore field would be a major stress maker. Also keep in mind most people have different combat equip then mining equip...a miner would have to start optimizing for combat in the ore field instead of mining. Anything that stops a class from doing what is is highly and specially designed for or enjoying that activity shouldn't be added.

Trade runs I don't see getting too bad of hit from this, but I still think it would be affected. Luckily, traders spend 80% of their time in warp so are generally safe (unless its a JD with summon enemy). However, they are subject to a LOT of gating...and load lag after gating is a major vulnerability time. Though with the limit of being only able to attack those in your lv range should make it so they don't come out dead already...just a good part of the way there. Again, people normally gear up for trade runs (namely not keeping ammo in the hold for ammo users). They'd have to start losing trade space to ammo stock. Also keep in mind if you take hull damage, items in your hull can lose quality. Quality affects trade xp earned and money earned.

Which brings me to the other aspect that I don't think anyone has considered when considering PvP. Quality damage, its very much a part of the game. How you going to feel about someone that takes off 10% of your 200% lv9 guns you spent hours and millions trying to get for yourself? I doubt someone can walk away from that thinking it was just a 'fun bout'. Yes it can be exempted off so that player kills don't cause quality loss, but I see this as a possible cheat. If it looks like your going to die, have your buddy kill you quick so you don't lose your gear. I don't remember hearing of anyone losing quality in the arenas in live, which leads me to believe the zones where 'quality damage' exempt. You could still lose structure though. If anyone remembers losing quality in arenas please correct me, I didn't spend too much time in them.

I believe open pvp is too radical of a game play change. It would drastically change everything we know and love about how the game currently works. There would be no 'safe' place in EnB and I think a lot of people see this game as their 'safe' place to relax so I'd like to preserve that aspect. However, I know PvP is something that some people do enjoy, so I have no objections to specially designed PvP zones. Like I said before once PvP is under development we can talk about making adjustments to it to make it more exciting for PvPers. But where and when PvP occurs needs to be limited as outlined in my earlier post (in arenas, with nothing in it a non-pvper would want, controlled entry for anti party crashers...so on...see above for more). Keeping PvP to the arenas seems like the best of both worlds type things. I truly believe we can make those arena zones into something PvPers will actually enjoy so they won't be complaining that they only get 'arena' areas to play.

Edited by Raptorred
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Explore I'd see taking a major hit from it. Like miners fighting over prime roid fields. JE is supposed to be tops in mining, that's what its designed for, but it most certainly wouldn't be able to compete against another miner class (of same lv) if it came in and decided it wanted the JE's field. Yes JE are well equipped to deal with mobs in ore fields...but lets face it, players are smarter than your average manes. JE uses cloak to escape...manes goes away, player just sits and waits till JE tries mining again and simply repeats till JE gets upset and leaves. JE's only defense against this? Keep your cl low so higher cls couldn't shoot you out of a field...not exactly a balance promoter or fun sounding. It would definitely cripple the JE's ability for certain skills and gear and force them to limit their play (no combat). Mining would be completely destroyed in my opinion if open pvp (even level limited) was allowed. Most find mining currently as nice calming stress relaxer after hard day's work. Worrying if your going to be chased off of your ore field would be a major stress maker. Also keep in mind most people have different combat equip then mining equip...a miner would have to start optimizing for combat in the ore field instead of mining. Anything that stops a class from doing what is is highly and specially designed for or enjoying that activity shouldn't be added.

I agree with your post, except that the Scout or Sentinel doesn't have to wait until the JE tries to mine again, if the JE is sitting around cloaked, the Scout or Sentinel will eventually see him. Scouts & Sentinels have the Scan skill which allows them to see a cloaked player or mob. (yes there were some mobs that could cloak in Live. Some of the Osterae in VG had Combat Cloak)

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Scouts & Sentinels have the Scan skill which allows them to see a cloaked player or mob.

Ah yes...forgot about that with scan having been broken so long (been lving a TT since before they fixed it haven't gotten any miners to max lv yet). Ty for the update~ just brings the point all that more home I think.

Btw, Thank you anyone who actually reads all my big wall o' text. D:

Edited by Raptorred
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Explore I'd see taking a major hit from it. Like miners fighting over prime roid fields. JE is supposed to be tops in mining, that's what its designed for, but it most certainly wouldn't be able to compete against another miner class (of same lv) if it came in and decided it wanted the JE's field. Yes JE are well equipped to deal with mobs in ore fields...but lets face it, players are smarter than your average manes. JE uses cloak to escape...manes goes away, player just sits and waits till JE tries mining again and simply repeats till JE gets upset and leaves. JE's only defense against this? Keep your cl low so higher cls couldn't shoot you out of a field...not exactly a balance promoter or fun sounding. It would definitely cripple the JE's ability for certain skills and gear and force them to limit their play (no combat). Mining would be completely destroyed in my opinion if open pvp (even level limited) was allowed. Most find mining currently as nice calming stress relaxer after hard day's work. Worrying if your going to be chased off of your ore field would be a major stress maker. Also keep in mind most people have different combat equip then mining equip...a miner would have to start optimizing for combat in the ore field instead of mining. Anything that stops a class from doing what is is highly and specially designed for or enjoying that activity shouldn't be added.

I was thinking about this, and I realized that some people do sit around and camp ore fields quite a lot. Sometimes it wouldn't be so bad to blast away the competition... But that may just be the evil side in me... Muahaha.

But for real, you shouldn't be able to just sit in a field all day long unimpeded by anyone else. I mean, I've had a few other JE's or maybe a Terran Scout come over when I'm mining and just start to take all my stuff, even though I've been there longer. As a Progen Sentinel, I can pretty much down them both, but I can't, because theres no PvP. If I want to mine uninterrupted, attacking the competition almost feels as if its not something I shouldn't be able to do. You know what I mean?

I suppose the main concern should be who is allowed to attack who, and in reality, warrior class ships should only be fighting amongst each other, because I can imagine some dual boxer flying around with his Progen Warrior and JE grouped together, and simply offing any competition like I proposed earlier.

It's a pretty sticky subject, and it boils down to how much annoyance people can cause, but to be honest, if someones camping, and I want it, why can't I take it? They got there first? Seems like a rather boring excuse.

Quality Damage:

I believe is something you mentioned also.

That's too bad for the trader. They run the risk of dying and having quality loss anywhere, not just from PvP ships. And I really don't think people will literally wait around JUST to cause quality damage to traders. Thats not how I envisioned PvP working.

How I envisioned PvP working was more or less, if someones in your way, you can do something about it. I didn't really see people waiting around just to kill traders for ZERO gain, just to make people lose quality. And in fact, most traders are so fast, thats not going to happen anyway. I don't think EnB as it is now has a big enough community of assholes who would just sit around and wait to kill traders.

Or, just make it so PvP doesn't make you lose quality. Done and done.

Maybe give some experience in a classes relative field for surviving PvP attacks? A trader survives a Progen Warrior, he gains trade exp.

More incentive for world PvP, rather than it just being "there" to annoy people. But no one sit around and attack people just so they gain experience, obviously, that won't work.

I mean, the classes in EnB may not be balanced, but they can all survive anything if given the proper player who knows what hes doing.

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