Player vs Player and Graphical Update

[lordrayken]

Hey all,

I've been around for quite some time though I'm just now deciding to post.

This may come out of the blue and I'm sure it's probably been talked about before, but I'm just throwing it out there.

PvP in Earth and Beyond

The game was never designed with Player vs Player and I don't think any of the classes/races/factions were balanced to be able to fight amongst each other or against each other, but this is a pretty big thing when it comes to most MMORPG's now adays. PvP would up the ante a little bit when it comes to being careful about where you mine, and who's looking for you.

Now I'm not sure if PvP would allow you to kill the other person and effectively loot them and whatnot like the olden Ultima Online days in the 90's, but maybe it would allow some friendly dueling or something similar to that?

My guess is a NO on the PvP, as it wouldn't be anything like the original live, but that was one of the inherent flaws with live to begin with, and another reason the game died out (next to EA being idiots).

The second thing I wanted to talk about was the Graphics.

On maxed out settings with my resolution, the game looks clean and beautiful. The only problem is with all of these maxed out settings in a game thats now 8 or 9 years old, the age of everything really starts to shine through.

Is it, or will it ever be, possible to somehow polish the graphics? Is there a way to even update the original graphics engine, and make things look sharper, and give edges a bit more clean feeling, as opposed to some of the blocky looking polygons we have now?

The best examples would be the Earth Starbase, player "feet" and "arms" and other stuff. I have no idea what kind of programming or graphical design team it would take to make something like this happen, or if we even have access to the original graphic SYSTEM, or just the source code for the servers of Earth and Beyond.

Either way, Player vs Player and graphical update are two things I really envision being needed to actually

1) Expand Earth and Beyond

2) Garner the attention of a larger player base

3) Make it the game it never was in live, but could have been

Also, perhaps some new voice acting or something? I'm not sure, but are there any in game files for the voice overs during character creation of the Terran Explorer, Progen Tradesman, or Jenquai Tradesman? Those would be really awesome to dig up and implement, or if not, voice over some new ones! I have the recording technology myself, just not the voice actors! Haha!

Hope to get comments, and please don't attack me too hard if this stuff has already been talked about! Forum traffic is good... Right? *winces*

Edited June 5, 2010 by lordrayken

[Kyp [LDEV]]

There was PvP in arena form in the live game. Also, you might be suprised if you had the original live documents because they discussed combat between players as well as several different weapon types on each ship, but I digress a bit. Anyway, the point is PvP is a sore point for a lot of people, and you probably won't be seeing it in an open style format, if anything it would be certain sectors so that people know if they go there, they're fair game for PvP.

We can't update the engine or how it displays without writing a new client (not happening for free, sorry), but we can place some new assets such as mob ships and the like but we haven't done so yet because we're busy getting the base functionality ready.

[Mimir[IS]]

There was PvP in arena form in the live game. Also, you might be suprised if you had the original live documents because they discussed combat between players as well as several different weapon types on each ship, but I digress a bit. Anyway, the point is PvP is a sore point for a lot of people, and you probably won't be seeing it in an open style format, if anything it would be certain sectors so that people know if they go there, they're fair game for PvP.

We can't update the engine or how it displays without writing a new client (not happening for free, sorry), but we can place some new assets such as mob ships and the like but we haven't done so yet because we're busy getting the base functionality ready.

I’m happy you took the stance of only “certain sectors” if and when. As I have said before we/you/the Devs really can’t make those sectors have any special ores or special drops without at least giving the non PvPers an equal opportunity to get those items. I also think that if open PvP did get put into EnB, many many many of the remaining 300 players would leave.

I know it has been a pet project, on a back burner. And I hope it is truly held off on until the game gets in a closer state to being called “done”. Really guys, I’m not about keeping others from having their ganking fun, well as long as I am not the gankee.

But if it does come to any sort of open PvP, the player count will for sure:)rop to 299.

[Klyde]

Putting it as mildly as I can...

If you want pvp, go play EVE.

The balancing of the classes to be able to compete would be staggering. Bring back the arenas as they were in live, but leave the open pvp to the other games already on the market.

[lordrayken]

Putting it as mildly as I can...

If you want pvp, go play EVE.

The balancing of the classes to be able to compete would be staggering. Bring back the arenas as they were in live, but leave the open pvp to the other games already on the market.

Thanks for some of your responses!

I kind of feel as if I received a "Never"

And two negative "If theres PvP, I quit."

Well, to put it simply, PvP is an important factor of any MMO on the market today. I feel like saying "if you want PvP, play Eve" is a pretty nasty come back though. Eve sucks. And it doesn't suck because of the PvP. It sucks for many more reasons I won't go into.

Ahem...

"I'll put it as mildly as I can..."

I hate Eve. I don't want to play Eve. I want to play Earth and Beyond with some PvP options. If I can't, oh well. But don't tell me to go play another crappy game when I've been attached to this one for over 7 years.

I never said that flagging for PvP wouldn't be an option. I don't think it'd be a good idea to FORCE people to PvP, but in a way, it would make space feel more like... Space. I mean, you can't just go out into open waters today and expect no occurance of pirates. I think there would be a lot of realism with PvP, in a way, but perhaps thats just me trying to think of EnB as more of a simulator of space life.

I just find it hard to believe with the suggestion of a pretty big feature, (not to mention a HUGE factor of MMO's today), two people respond with "I'll quit", in a threatening way without even remotely perceiving different options of play styles available.

[Mimir[IS]]

Thanks for some of your responses!

I kind of feel as if I received a "Never"

And two negative "If theres PvP, I quit."

Well, to put it simply, PvP is an important factor of any MMO on the market today. I feel like saying "if you want PvP, play Eve" is a pretty nasty come back though. Eve sucks. And it doesn't suck because of the PvP. It sucks for many more reasons I won't go into.

Ahem...

"I'll put it as mildly as I can..."

I hate Eve. I don't want to play Eve. I want to play Earth and Beyond with some PvP options. If I can't, oh well. But don't tell me to go play another crappy game when I've been attached to this one for over 7 years.

I never said that flagging for PvP wouldn't be an option. I don't think it'd be a good idea to FORCE people to PvP, but in a way, it would make space feel more like... Space. I mean, you can't just go out into open waters today and expect no occurance of pirates. I think there would be a lot of realism with PvP, in a way, but perhaps thats just me trying to think of EnB as more of a simulator of space life.

I just find it hard to believe with the suggestion of a pretty big feature, (not to mention a HUGE factor of MMO's today), two people respond with "I'll quit", in a threatening way without even remotely perceiving different options of play styles available.

Not exactly true... I have played PvP games, I enjoyed some, and hated others. Ryzom's downfall was forced PvP, guilds were split old friends could not group, and even getting to guild halls was impossible for some. Pirates of the burning Seas was another that started out with PvP...You knew from the start if it's red you are dead. The problem I see is the "whip it out and measure" syndrome. If you can smack someone around you are going to do it. If done the way I enjoy, you beat someone and they have the option to drop their sails and the match is over, then PvP is cool. But and a big BUT here most will not play PvP like this, it is how can I spoil this players day...because I can. This sucks... not just it sucks to be you, but sucks in general. Look at POTBS dwindling servers, people lose interest in not being able to just relax and enjoy a game. EnB is for some IS that escape from the day to day issues. Getting more real life issues in a game...well we may as well put in for over time. Stay at work. I love EnB, if there were some PvP in some area that made no real difference to me if I went there or not, then hell yes go for it. Some need it, some have to flex their muscles and have others see it to enjoy their games, Ok cool, I can always turn off the chat channel of the chest thumpers. I can always refuse or accept the challenge.. But if that choice is taken away from me...then I object.

Edited June 6, 2010 by Mimir

[lordrayken]

Not exactly true... I have played PvP games, I enjoyed some, and hated others. Ryzom's downfall was forced PvP, guilds were split old friends could not group, and even getting to guild halls was impossible for some. Pirates of the burning Seas was another that started out with PvP...You knew from the start if it's red you are dead. The problem I see is the "whip it out and measure" syndrome. If you can smack someone around you are going to do it. If done the way I enjoy, you beat someone and they have the option to drop their sails and the match is over, then PvP is cool. But and a big BUT here most will not play PvP like this, it is how can I spoil this players day...because I can. This sucks... not just it sucks to be you, but sucks in general. Look at POTBS dwindling servers, people lose interest in not being able to just relax and enjoy a game. EnB is for some IS that escape from the day to day issues. Getting more real life issues in a game...well we may as well put in for over time. Stay at work. I love EnB, if there were some PvP in some area that made no real difference to me if I went there or not, then hell yes go for it. Some need it, some have to flex their muscles and have others see it to enjoy their games, Ok cool, I can always turn off the chat channel of the chest thumpers. I can always refuse or accept the challenge.. But if that choice is taken away from me...then I object.

Ahhh.

That was a much more civil and direct response I was looking for.

I agree wholeheartedly.

Not to mention though... Saga of Ryzom and Pirates were just bad games to begin with :/ ... Pirates was a Pirate/WoW Clone.

Earth and Beyond is so unique because its one of the originals that was never changed to compete with World of Warcraft.

All the original MMO's that came out from 1998 to now have all changed to deal with World of Warcraft. Earth and Beyond has not and it should be kept that way.

If World PvP is too much, perhaps players can flag to enter PvP? Or if that's too much, designated zones where PvP is about FUN, and not "Must smack you around", then that sounds good also.

I personally think Earth and Beyond would probably hurt if PvP were enabled too drastically, considering Terran Tradesman would be ganked constantly for fun by Progen Warriors and the like, but also, it would encourage people to stay on their toes, watch their trade routes, and maximize their characters protection (aka, a Terran Tradesmans speed would help them survive a Progen Warriors onslaught, a Jenquai's cloak, etc.)

So, basically, to sum it up...

Bad games suffer horribly from PvP, like Pirates and Ryzom, but I don't think EnB would suffer. However, I do consider EnB an escape myself, to earlier MMO's before WoW, and with EnB being unchanged as it was cancelled before WoW, it's awesome to play an original MMO again, PvP or not.

[Allia]

My concern about PvP in EnB is that it seems a bit counter intuitive to what drove EnB in live, aka Community Cooperation. Honestly I've yet to find EnB's type of community in a mainly PvP type game and I think its community is what made it special. Yes some people can enjoy a good dual and go on with life, but others would hold grudges. I think EnB should have PvP but only to the extent it did in live (special zones for it). This would allow the people that want to have their friendly dual enjoy it, while others could completely ignore it. Everyone could to stay on friendly terms preserving the community that made EnB unique.

Will EnB have PvP in the future? Probably yes, I mean it did have it in some form in live. The 3 stadium zones Shield, Spear, and Sword seemed to be enough in live to keep PvPers happy (if you don't consider the mad rush when it first came out). Honestly, I can't see the devs not eventually implementing the use of these zones.

Will we change how PvP works for the game? Probably so, I mean in live it was pretty lame. We'll probably keep some of the old EnB style of PvP though such as limiting zones its in, limiting rewards so non-PvPers don't feel left out, and restricting access to zones so only who you wanted could enter during your time reservation slot (so someone doesn't party crash). I don't see harm in adding PvP only devices/toys to make PvP more interesting for the PvPers though....its something that's to be discussed once PvP was looking like reviving. With player input EnB has the potential to make PvP far more interesting than it had been in live.

Nothing should be in a PvP zone that non PvPers would want. Non-PvPers should never be forced to PvP for any reason...it just makes them angry and leave. If your looking to add rewards to make PvP more interesting I'd suggest items that only help out while in PvP zones. If I remember right from live PvP reminded me a bit like basket ball. Miners would mine out the 'ball', warriors would try to guard miners and protect them to the goal point, if the miner dropped the ball anyone could grab it and try for score. Everyone was given a standard ball launcher to fire on the goal with. One of the potential rewards for the zone would be a better 'ball launcher' device (farther range). Another idea for a PvP reward device would be something allowing you to 'steal' the ball (obviously this one would need a healthy recharge time). If I remember right in live winning a PvP match normally resulted in some xp gain (not a lot you could mine/trade run/kill something faster) and minimal money reward. Losers still got some xp and no cash. You did have to pay to reserve the PvP zone...so a little xp back even if you lost was a nice reward.

Is now the right time for PvP development to start? This is the major thing against PvP at the moment for me. It just doesn't seem the right time to be working on it. There is still much restoration to do to the game that would affect PvP balance. If you consider the state of a lot of jobs and skills it doesn't seem time yet. Some jobs don't have all the skills yet like TS and not all skills are working yet as they should. 90% of skills that could be used in warp in live aren't allowed in warp at the moment. This makes a big difference if your warping up to someone to engage and trying to buff. Also considering a lot of the weapons/devices that helped balance jobs in live still have yet to be added in yet it wouldn't hurt to wait a little longer for PvP.

Trying to balance out PvP when PvE isn't even working as it should seems like a misdirection of resources to me. Keep in mind PvP in live was maybe 5% of the actual game and it was added later after the PvE element had been well balanced. I can't see dedicating to much time to a 5% when the other 95% still needs help. A Frankly, I'd like to see pop rocks, Vrix, Factions, and more missions working in the game first before PvP. I know some people don't want to wait for their PvP, but I'm sure there are people who can't wait for Vrix or their supergun not currently in game either. Don't worry the Dev's will get there, I mean after all they've managed to get it to its current state. With a little more time who knows what they'll surprise us with next.

[Yuritau]

I've never understood why people keep trying to ask for PvP in EnB. Even back in live the request popped up regularly, which made even LESS sense than it does currently. Back in live we had the Vrix, and the story about them was basically everyone work together and drive out the vrix, or we ALL LOSE. How could fighting amongst ourselves possibly make sense in an all-or-nothing story like that? I don't know what the Emu Devs have planned for the Vrix, but I kinda liked the whole universal enemy dynamic, so I hope that's part of it.

I'm 100% against there being any PvP outside of arena zones. My reason for this: if any kind of open PvP system is introduced, class balancing will follow. Class balancing would ruin the game, as far as I'm concerned. I like this game in large part BECAUSE the classes are not balanced. Each class has its own style of play, and each class has its own unique benefits to other classes, and also dependencies on other classes. In my view, if PvP ever spills outside of the arena zones, that's my cue to start shifting from playing the game to mourning the game. Again.

[lordrayken]

I've never understood why people keep trying to ask for PvP in EnB. Even back in live the request popped up regularly, which made even LESS sense than it does currently. Back in live we had the Vrix, and the story about them was basically everyone work together and drive out the vrix, or we ALL LOSE. How could fighting amongst ourselves possibly make sense in an all-or-nothing story like that? I don't know what the Emu Devs have planned for the Vrix, but I kinda liked the whole universal enemy dynamic, so I hope that's part of it.

I'm 100% against there being any PvP outside of arena zones. My reason for this: if any kind of open PvP system is introduced, class balancing will follow. Class balancing would ruin the game, as far as I'm concerned. I like this game in large part BECAUSE the classes are not balanced. Each class has its own style of play, and each class has its own unique benefits to other classes, and also dependencies on other classes. In my view, if PvP ever spills outside of the arena zones, that's my cue to start shifting from playing the game to mourning the game. Again.

While I understand this point of view, I believe it's a tiny bit overdramatic.

Lore is constantly changing. If EnB's lore is never touched or changed in any way, it will become static and you will be playing the exact same game for many many years. There's no such thing as a perfect society, and fighting amongst one another is inevitable, especially in space. I don't care how doomed the world is, someone is going to want someone dead.

What you seem to cling to is the idea that Lore cannot be changed or updated. You seem to want to EnB to be stuck in a limbo of "Vrix are here, we must fight them together."

Fine and dandy.

How about 3 years from now?

Or 5 years?

Are you going to be happy floating and mining with your full character slots?

What about what you do when your characters are maxed out entirely, all max level, and you can't delete any of them? What about end game content? What about doing the end game content too much?

Anyways, I suppose most people prefer there to be no PvP in Earth and Beyond. However, what we've all experienced is a game that was canceled in less than three years, and what we've now all had to revive it is a few stress tests where our stuff is constantly wiped and the games being updated. What will it be like when the games finally complete and live? How long will it stay in that form? Preservation is important... What comes after? PvE will stay fun for a long time for PvE'rs, but even some of these anti PvP people will find in 7 years, trade routes look a little "safe".

I like the person who posted above's idea, and I guess if Arena comes back that should satisfy the want for PvP and could be promoted as "PvP", while not being anywhere in the outside world. I don't think I would mourn Earth and Beyond if PvP were introduced. The game HAS to develop and grow, or else it never moves past a pet project.

Edit:

Also, I wanted to make it clear I am not a proponent of "ENB MUST HAVE PVP"... I'm simply contemplating the main reasons the original game failed in a player community sense. What people asked for that was not delivered, and why people didn't stick around.

[ajsb1986]

Well just my two cents, but I disagree on PvP being needed at all as long as the PvE content is engaging and fun. In my opinion EnB was just that. And it's original writers had much, much more planned for it then we saw. Now I only played it for about a year, year and a half, so I guess I can't comment on what'd it'd be like for me to have played EnB as PvE only for years. However, I did play Final Fantasy 11 for 6 years and it is essentially PvE only. It has a tiny, tiny bit of PvP that maybe 1%-5% of the player base partakes in, the Japanese mostly. Everything else was just straight up PvE. 70% leveling and 30% missions I guess, but the leveling was 95% party based. There was always a sense of grouping up with friends to go out and accomplish. And the ever advancing story line always gave the incentive to continue. Without that, a game has to rely on PvP to keep their players. Case in point, EVE. I like it's story line, but it's not enough, so there is PvP. I'd say WoW has more story line then EVE and can rely on PvP less. It's a balance. And if we are going to restore EnB, then there is going to be enough PvE to maintain the game. At least for a while.

[Klyde]

Thanks for some of your responses!

I kind of feel as if I received a "Never"

And two negative "If theres PvP, I quit."

Well, to put it simply, PvP is an important factor of any MMO on the market today. I feel like saying "if you want PvP, play Eve" is a pretty nasty come back though. Eve sucks. And it doesn't suck because of the PvP. It sucks for many more reasons I won't go into.

Ahem...

"I'll put it as mildly as I can..."

I hate Eve. I don't want to play Eve. I want to play Earth and Beyond with some PvP options. If I can't, oh well. But don't tell me to go play another crappy game when I've been attached to this one for over 7 years.

I never said that flagging for PvP wouldn't be an option. I don't think it'd be a good idea to FORCE people to PvP, but in a way, it would make space feel more like... Space. I mean, you can't just go out into open waters today and expect no occurance of pirates. I think there would be a lot of realism with PvP, in a way, but perhaps thats just me trying to think of EnB as more of a simulator of space life.

I just find it hard to believe with the suggestion of a pretty big feature, (not to mention a HUGE factor of MMO's today), two people respond with "I'll quit", in a threatening way without even remotely perceiving different options of play styles available.

Sorry Lord if I sounded snippy, I had several beers before reading your thread. :/

When EnB shutdown, I and many others went to EvE as it was the only space type game at the time and most of us aren't into orcs, pixies, etc.

EvE is a great niche game and continues to grow, it's main downfall for me is... it's work to play, if you want to get ahead. But, if you are looking for pvp you can find it the second you undock your ship.

EnB as others have said was never designed for all out pvp, it was designed for pve, and only after some rants on their forums about not having it, did the devs put in the arenas.

I'm all for the arenas to come back, we had some great fun matching wits in them.

But open pvp would be very class oriented because, lets face it, some classes are just better suited to doing damage than others.

And I doubt very much that I would quit if pvp was allowed, but I wouldn't have as much fun, watching my back anytime I was in space. Imagine being out solo, find that mob that you 'might' be able to take down, get into the fight, get it almost down, and another guy comes along and blasts your already damaged ship, then camps on you to nail that unsuspecting JS'er.

Or even player 1 dual boxes, takes his 2 toons to an area, incaps 1 and turns on the dorito, just so he can grief the poor js'er that comes along.

IMO there's just too many ways pvp could turn into griefers paradise.

[lordrayken]

The issues behind PvP are as follows, from what it appears...

1) Lack of class balance (that's a good thing, I enjoy it myself) since classes are supposed to work together in EnB, class balance never mattered.

2) Untold grief possibility.

3) EnB was designed from the ground up as a PvE game.

I suppose arenas will do. But if the original player base really wanted PvP... Let's take a look at how many of that original playerbase that wanted PvP and protested enough to get arenas is still around now. How many are still here?

*crickets*

So that may say something in and of itself.

I still think there are some different possibilities for PvP that we may not have thought of yet. Also, thanks for apologizing Klyde, I wasn't being hostile myself.

So, the other thing I talked about aside from PvP was a graphics update.

The game is showing its age through the current graphics client, and I'm not sure what we can do about that. I know the games lasted over 8 years from live to now, and is in our hearts, and will last much longer, so hows it going to look in 5 years? Catch my drift?

Also, the voice acting and whatnot.

[garblesoup]

Well, to put it simply, PvP is an important factor of any MMO on the market today.

But this game isn't "on the market" - it's a labor of love to restore a favorite game of many while fixing the flaws and delivering on many of the original storylines - and developing some of new ones. Comparing an effort like this, done by volunteers on their own (unpaid) time with equipment purchased via a donation system to other games "on the market" being developed by and funded by for-profit companies is hardly a valid comparison.

Also, saying that not having PvP was one of the reasons that led to the game's demise doesn't jibe with reality. EA bought Westwood for a number of reasons, none of them related to EnB. As part of the deal they agreed to keep EnB running for two years. When those two years were up they had fulfilled their obligation and pulled the plug. Pure and simple.

You want PvP, fine - you aren't the only one that has expressed that desire. There's also a pretty good sized group that don't want it (I'm in that camp). This is hardly a new discussion but I guess with the previous threads on this being lost when the old discussion board went kaput we will now generate some new ones. I predict they will follow about the same pattern and end in the same manner.

But, as they say, Discuss!

[bondct]

I know a lot of people love PVP... I am not one of them, but you cant deny that there are people that love it... there are a few options I would not be against.

1. 100% on both sides consentual PVP - you ask me if I want to fight and if I say yes, then we fight... with an option in preferences to auto deny pvp and also the ability to submit tickets to have whatever lost 100% restored no questions asked when someone figures out a hack to turn on my pvp flag without my consent (and yes that has happened before)...

2. a PVP dedicated server - so if you make a toon here its whatever... you signed up for it so you deal with it...

3. Keep in mind the code is open source so anyone that wants pvp bad enough can start there own server (see 2 above)

I agree with Jarod this game is not on the market and a labor of love, so we have no need to compete with anyone, so that is not a factor here... even updating graphics to me is not a factor cuz it holds nostalgia value to me... and in agreement with some of the previous posters here, I will cast my vote as well... any kind of open non-consentual pvp and I am gone too... not a threat, there is no need for it to be... I would just go play a different game... its about choice...

[Allia]

I must say I strongly disagree with the idea that PvP (or lack there of) is why EnB died. Personally I believe EnB died becuase EA wanted to buy out their competition on MMO (lol)Sims. I think if the project had never transferred out of Westwood's hands it probably would of at least retained one server. There was most certainly enough people left at sunset to make 1 server worth leaving up and paying for itself. It would of essentially been free money but that would of been competition to their own MMO thus it was canned. (You guys may of remembered all the spam at the end for free transfers to the Sims Online service and try it free!) This may be a bit of a dramatic viewpoint, but its how EA left me feeling about the whole deal.

And even if lack of PvP as the reason it died, it most certainly would not be around today if it hadn't been for a lot of people who loved it as it was then...limited PvP and all. I don't see a desperate need to update EnB's PvP 'to be competitive to other games' becuase EnB is most definitely not other games. You'll hear a lot of people say they tried to find something they could enjoy like EnB and couldn't and thus are glad its back. I think its safe to say that EnB already has an established appeal that brings people back so doesn't need to branch out its PvP beyond what it had in the past. I'm all for keeping the game as it was then, or as close as possible, becuase that's what inspired people to bring it back.

[lordrayken]

3. Keep in mind the code is open source so anyone that wants pvp bad enough can start there own server (see 2 above)

I agree with Jarod this game is not on the market and a labor of love, so we have no need to compete with anyone, so that is not a factor here... even updating graphics to me is not a factor cuz it holds nostalgia value to me... and in agreement with some of the previous posters here, I will cast my vote as well... any kind of open non-consentual pvp and I am gone too... not a threat, there is no need for it to be... I would just go play a different game... its about choice...

Two things with this.

While you may think you're being intelligent and "firm" in your standing about EnB, the above tidbits of your post tell me two things.

The first thing is ridiculous. No one else is making an EnB private server, and no one else would certainly make anything remotely close to whats been done here, so that's stupid in my opinion to list that as a feasible option. PvP isn't important to me. I was simply talking about it in an EnB perspective.

The second is, you aren't a real big fan of the game if you'd be high and dry if some ships were able to attack.

I hate to take that stance, but honestly, it's JUST PvP. To me, it seems as normal as any game and in EnB it wouldn't be much different, it would simply add more appeal to other gamers, but apparently the core fanbase of 2-300 people "despises" PvP. That's fine. I don't care either way. It's not personal for me. But I will say again, just because some fellow ships have the capability to attack you, if thats enough to make you quit, fine by me. You can pretty much revoke any idea that you're dedicated or devoted to EnB no matter what.

But this game isn't "on the market" - it's a labor of love to restore a favorite game of many while fixing the flaws and delivering on many of the original storylines - and developing some of new ones. Comparing an effort like this, done by volunteers on their own (unpaid) time with equipment purchased via a donation system to other games "on the market" being developed by and funded by for-profit companies is hardly a valid comparison.

You want PvP, fine - you aren't the only one that has expressed that desire. There's also a pretty good sized group that don't want it (I'm in that camp). This is hardly a new discussion but I guess with the previous threads on this being lost when the old discussion board went kaput we will now generate some new ones. I predict they will follow about the same pattern and end in the same manner.

But, as they say, Discuss!

What I see in a few posts is a pretty big sense of self entitlement that I'm wondering about.

Nowhere in my original post did I say "I want PvP"... Yet most responses take the topic in a direction that makes it either personal, or insulting. "I'll quit" or "This idea is stupid".

That's fine. Say what you will, but generating discussion on this is important, and to be honest, EnB is such a good game and will garner a lot more support than a few people who claim to outright abandon the game due to some ships being able to attack them.

Also, about EnB not being "on the market", it isn't. But if we can ever hope to achieve noticeable standpoint, or some kind of true stance for EnB, what do you propose happens? I don't care if the game stays at 200 people forever... However, it is one big empty galaxy out there, and I'd love to see more players.

So, I guess I'll stop responding then, as I seem to have only irritated people about this, and you have to know I sincerely apologize. I didn't mean to cause any waves with anyone. EnB is a really closed in project with a lot of dedicated fans sitting behind it... Or so I thought, until I started hearing things like "I'll quit" over trivial issues, that's all.

Also, as a followup, saying "I don't want the graphics changed" is like a win lose situation.

[bondct]

well if your not willing to listen to other peoples opinions you might want to take that into consideration before posting your own? and i dont think anyone is upset or irritated... just posting their opinions... and just like I wont tell you what type of game you like... seems like you might be exercising a "sense of entitlement" on your views of our opinions

[Terrell [BT]]

Count me as another voice opposed to PvP outside of special zones for doing so, with no special benefits for PvPers over those who perfer PvE.

If open PvP were in game most fights would be started by PW/PT/TW, the 3 most powerful of the classes in combat (The JW can hit very hard for short periods of time, but is limited by his L8 shield and lack of Damage Control). JEs, Scouts, Seekers would have a very hard time in open PvP, TT possibly as well depending on player's skill/tactics, and equipment. Gates, & wefts would be obvious gank zones.

JEs mining would have to worry about conflicts with PEs or Scouts. When a JE would rather team up with the PE or Scout, since those two classes are better at killing orefield guardian mobs, and likely have higher sigs to begin with (mobs would pay more attention to them). The orefield guardians alone give the JE enough to watch his back, without having to worry about other miners attacking.

[lordrayken]

well if your not willing to listen to other peoples opinions you might want to take that into consideration before posting your own? and i dont think anyone is upset or irritated... just posting their opinions... and just like I wont tell you what type of game you like... seems like you might be exercising a "sense of entitlement" on your views of our opinions

I haven't actually shown I don't listen to other people? In fact I've only been responding to other people. Not sure what you mean by saying I have a sense of entitlement? I don't even want PvP and was making suggestions.

[Tyran]

Also, perhaps some new voice acting or something? I'm not sure, but are there any in game files for the voice overs during character creation of the Terran Explorer, Progen Tradesman, or Jenquai Tradesman? Those would be really awesome to dig up and implement, or if not, voice over some new ones! I have the recording technology myself, just not the voice actors! Haha!

If you need voice actors I'm sure there are some trained voices around this forum.

I am willing to lend my Pakistani accent for the cause. I would think there is a paki in EnB somewhere...perhaps one of the space-borne NPC's that sells dodgy merchandise?

Perhaps this should be his audio dialogue when interacting with him:

"don't worry it is only 5 months past expiration date"

"buy one get one free"

"don''t call me a Paki!"

"racist!"

"get out of my shop!"

"I will call police if you dont leave now!"

I also have a friend who has been swallowing testosterone buffers since he was 14 and wanted to be a girl so he can chip in for a female voice.

[Mimir[IS]]

Two things with this.

...

The first thing is ridiculous. No one else is making an EnB private server, and no one else would certainly make anything remotely close to whats been done here, so that's stupid in my opinion to list that as a feasible option. PvP isn't important to me. I was simply talking about it in an EnB perspective.

...

Wrong...

I know of another public server up and running and I have the complete server code and the db (someplace) from Aug. of last year. So Avani saying "make a PvP server" is spot on. It could be done, with a bit of work. If all is wanted is PvP I'd think content is really not what is of interest so this code would most likely fit the PvP crowds perfectly.

[lordrayken]

Wrong...

I know of another public server up and running and I have the complete server code and the db (someplace) from Aug. of last year. So Avani saying "make a PvP server" is spot on. It could be done, with a bit of work. If all is wanted is PvP I'd think content is really not what is of interest so this code would most likely fit the PvP crowds perfectly.

Thanks for the bold "Wrong"

If you have the source code and your own server can be done, why are you here? Also, if I am wrong, can you kindly link me to the other currently active Earth and Beyond emulators?

[bondct]

The only other 2 public servers I know of are here...

http://www.enbclassic.com/community/

http://enbclassic.net/

Really small playerbases and still in the organizational phases... if you are interested... the first one is looking to restore the game back to sunset and the other not really sure what direction it will take... might be open for more of a pvp environment...

A number of threads and interest has been posted on this forum about people wanting to start there own server, so their is really no telling how many people have a server up (even if its only a lan server). It is really not that hard if you are server savvy... Our guild has even talked about it... just to be able to do raids whenever we want. To some people their guild is all the community they need... and tbh we would prob wait till the game is more finished and then do an internal interest check... but actually many of our members would prob start a server just because it would be fun to start one, even if all we did was play here anyway

[Mimir[IS]]

You are very welcome for the BIG n BOLD word!

As for why am I here? I like it here, and it would get very lonely all by myself... As for the other site nope, not gonna do it.