Server Wipe - Pros/Cons

[Kyp [LDEV]]

It disappoints me immensely that the whole reason that it seems wipes are even being discussed here by the powers that be is due to exploits. It isn't for correct content or to fix major bugs that can't be fixed otherwise...it's exploits. I could honestly care less how everyone else got to 150 in the game. In other games when exploits are fixed they patch them. Those people that figured them out got lucky and took advantage of them...and the number is usually pretty small before others figure it out or it comes to the devs attention. They don't 'punish' everyone cause there was an exploit. If there is an exploit, fix it when it comes to your attention but I don't know anyone who wants to grind the trade runs over again. You do it to enjoy the stuff after it. The thought of having to do it all over again on the same toons to achieve the same goal makes me not want to even continue leveling at this point because it sounds like a wipe is imminent and honestly I do not want to do the mind-numbing trade runs all over again. The reason I did them again this time is there was what 5+ years to forget how awful it was to do them the first time around.

Please do not wipe it again. I honestly do not see any people that are in favor of the wipe saying..."wipe it or I am leaving" but I can tell you for sure that there are people that will leave if you wipe it again and past experience you already know that this is true.

Thanks for listening.

Exploits are not why we wipe, the last time we wiped was because we were moving to a new server for this play server. Exploits will never cause a wipe, the time before that we had some major changes to the database and there would have been synchronization problems for your character. There was an accidental one a while back due to a problem as well, but we do apologize for that one, things happen but we offered a bonus of xp during that time.

As long as we have enough people to test major changes, we foresee that the next wipe here could probably be the last before the server is reborn to a gold status. (live again)

Like I said before 50-100 people when we need them to test, the more the better so we can get some focused data about problems. IN addition if we have the people do this, everything we bring to "play" should have less problems (if any, hopefully)

We'll let everyone know when we think we'll need help, and if you care to donate your time to EnB, you can show up and help make it happen.

[Phorlaug[IS]]

Yea the last wipe took the thrill out of it, now I play just

to pass the time, you know like if there isn't a good movie on or

the fish are not bitting or its raining out or I just don't feel

like working out at the gym.

Laugh if you like but my main Phorlaug JD is only level 63 or 64.

And you know what I'm finding that when I play For fun and not to

Level I seem to like it more, I'm trying to think of different ways

to make the game different, finding a little more varity for myself and everyone else.

But I'm hesitant to say how. (there are other topic and post)

Don't get me wrong a wipe would suk.

Phorlaug...

[Way2Random]

Exploits are not why we wipe, the last time we wiped was because we were moving to a new server for this play server. Exploits will never cause a wipe, the time before that we had some major changes to the database and there would have been synchronization problems for your character. There was an accidental one a while back due to a problem as well, but we do apologize for that one, things happen but we offered a bonus of xp during that time.

As long as we have enough people to test major changes, we foresee that the next wipe here could probably be the last before the server is reborn to a gold status. (live again)

Like I said before 50-100 people when we need them to test, the more the better so we can get some focused data about problems. IN addition if we have the people do this, everything we bring to "play" should have less problems (if any, hopefully)

We'll let everyone know when we think we'll need help, and if you care to donate your time to EnB, you can show up and help make it happen.

Hmm the following posts seem to to indicate otherwise wouldn't you say?

we probably would have to wipe to go into ST5 to check that all the loophole hacks have been removed. We could probably keep the toons, but they'd need to be reset to level 0.

As far as I can see the only need for another player wipe before we go live is to check that leveling hacks are all fixed - in that regard it benefits everyone to report leveling hacks you may find.

I am not quite sure how that post and one below it by Krp do not indicate that you are not going to have a wipe because of exploits? Let me re-quote this "As far as I can see the only need for another player wipe before we go live is to check that leveling hacks are all fixed - in that regard it benefits everyone to report leveling hacks you may find."

Now if there is going to be a wipe going into live that sucks and I am going to stop playing. I do not want to grind all over again. The other thing i want to throw in here is the constant say one thing and then do another or say one thing and then say another. Here one dev is saying one thing and then another seems to contradict that. Same thing with the MH/WH. Gem and Tienbau both said it was a mistake after the nerf on it. Then I read another post today by Riia who put the timer on it and for all intents and purposes that is how it very may well stay. I hate nerfs I find them to be incredibly frustrating as a player. And your staff are not even on the same page. You guys are asking for donations and I was fully planning to do that on a regular basis but this kind of stuff is crap. Seriously. Not fun/drama and I am not going to support crap like that.

I respect everything you guys have done to bring this game back to what it is now but I do not see the need to piss players off. I really thought this was going to be different. I can't remember where I read it but it said something along the lines of we're making it more fun than when it was live because of the lacking incentives to monetize it. Well wipes and nerfs are not making it more fun. If players want a wipe they can delete their own toons and start over. It doesn't work the other way. If players feel like they are unbalanced then they don't have to use a certain item. It doesn't work the other way around.

My 2 cents.

[bondct]

while there are a lot of pros and cons to a wipe... I want to see the devs do what will get us to live the fastest... that is the ultimate goal... and if people need to relevel their toons... well sry but getting to live is the goal and not your current toon... and if you are going to leave the game cuz of wipes then by all means take some time off to recooperate... constantly releveling can be tasking... but if its required for ANY reason whatsoever then the devs should not be intimidated to do so...

THE NUMBER ONE GOAL IS GETTING TO LIVE... we should not forget that... and we should not forget that the devs are giving of their time for free... and while we as testers are also giving of our time (which is appreciated) the completion of the game has to be first... so if a wipe is needed then wipe and dont worry about the feelings of people who are not putting the game first

Edited June 12, 2010 by Avani

[Kyp [LDEV]]

Hmm the following posts seem to to indicate otherwise wouldn't you say?

I am not quite sure how that post and one below it by Krp do not indicate that you are not going to have a wipe because of exploits? Let me re-quote this "As far as I can see the only need for another player wipe before we go live is to check that leveling hacks are all fixed - in that regard it benefits everyone to report leveling hacks you may find."

Now if there is going to be a wipe going into live that sucks and I am going to stop playing. I do not want to grind all over again. The other thing i want to throw in here is the constant say one thing and then do another or say one thing and then say another. Here one dev is saying one thing and then another seems to contradict that. Same thing with the MH/WH. Gem and Tienbau both said it was a mistake after the nerf on it. Then I read another post today by Riia who put the timer on it and for all intents and purposes that is how it very may well stay. I hate nerfs I find them to be incredibly frustrating as a player. And your staff are not even on the same page. You guys are asking for donations and I was fully planning to do that on a regular basis but this kind of stuff is crap. Seriously. Not fun/drama and I am not going to support crap like that.

I respect everything you guys have done to bring this game back to what it is now but I do not see the need to piss players off. I really thought this was going to be different. I can't remember where I read it but it said something along the lines of we're making it more fun than when it was live because of the lacking incentives to monetize it. Well wipes and nerfs are not making it more fun. If players want a wipe they can delete their own toons and start over. It doesn't work the other way. If players feel like they are unbalanced then they don't have to use a certain item. It doesn't work the other way around.

My 2 cents.

Our intention is to avoid wiping, and the post Tienbau made was prior to the last meeting we had discussing opening up the dev server to volunteers. It's easy though to get this sort of thing out of context, I understand. That's the nature of a forum. As far as a wipe before live, it wouldn't be very fair to the people coming in to play after the game is live if we had people already at 150 I think. I understand that frustration, but at the same time as Avani said our goal is to get this thing to a gold status, if a wipe is required for that we have to do it. At this point it should be an extremely rare case, but it could happen. If we have to do it and we're not testing the basics for balance, we can always enable considerable experience bonuses to lessen the pain of leveling again. It's a matter of changing I believe two lines of code to turn that on anytime we want.

[Way2Random]

while there are a lot of pros and cons to a wipe... I want to see the devs do what will get us to live the fastest... that is the ultimate goal... and if people need to relevel their toons... well sry but getting to live is the goal and not your current toon... and if you are going to leave the game cuz of wipes then by all means take some time off to recooperate... constantly releveling can be tasking... but if its required for ANY reason whatsoever then the devs should not be intimidated to do so...

THE NUMBER ONE GOAL IS GETTING TO LIVE... we should not forget that... and we should not forget that the devs are giving of their time for free... and while we as testers are also giving of our time (which is appreciated) the completion of the game has to be first... so if a wipe is needed then wipe and dont worry about the feelings of people who are not putting the game first

What I find interesting is how we speak about the concept of "live". Avani, could you please define in your opinion what you believe "live" means to you. It is very possible that it means something completely different to someone else and perhaps ultimately those who matter, the devs. So what is LIVE? Lest I forget what I perhaps did not already know. I played "live" once before for this game. And like you I have played "live" in many other games. I have even played Alpha and BETA in other games. "Live" is somewhat subjective and ultimately it will come down to a larger consensus of the devs when that point comes to deciding when the game has reached a state of "live".

Let's next talk about necessary. When does a wipe become necessary? Probably when the devs can no longer implements changes they need to move the game closer to the ultimate goal of "live". Is this really what necessary means? One could argue it is not really an issue of when it is necessary but rather a balancing of the difficulty of implementation vs toleration by players to continue to test or the time is might take to test higher levels? That might be my view of necessary. But it doesn't sound like it means that at all. From Krp's last post it would seem that it is an issue of fairness to those that begin the game when it goes live. You talk about not placing "getting to "live" ahead of leveling". It doesn't sound to me like that is even at issue here. Or maybe you should direct your comment of "dont worry about the feelings of people who are not putting the game first" to elsewhere because if that were the issue maybe we would not even be discussing wipes.

I also believe the devs are somewhat more sensitive than you to their player base. Although it does seem strange to put those that will be joining in live above those that are playing now. If they just hand a handful of people, you included, left playing at the end of the day because there was going to be a wipe every month I don't think they would progress very fast toward their vision of "live". So there is a balancing that must occur. History has already shown that wipe = lost players. If the devs came on and did a monthly reminder that there will be a wipe sometime in the future I would predict that the number of testers would decrease.

Unlike Avani I didn't come on here to belittle people who wanted to express their feeling of disagreement with wipes. I wanted to put forth my opinion so that it might be heard. I have never forgotten that the devs give up their time and lives to put this on for free and it is insulting at even the suggestion of that being the case. I have a considerable amount of respect and admiration for everyone who continues to work on this project. It takes a tremendous amount of time, effort, money, perseverance, and frankly kindness to do what these people have done and continue to do. This is exactly why they continue to respond to comments such as mine with an explanation rather than belittlement and smiley faces. It is also why they continue to listen to concerns and weigh them when making their decisions. This is also why sometimes it is even more frustrating when things such as the MH/WH fiasco occurs. Which would make a bigger impression on you: Someone you know who is out to screw you over trying to screw you over or someone you hold in high esteem trying to screw you over? (This is just an analogy I am in no way implying the devs are out to screw anyone over.)

Anyways thanks for listening and for everything else you guys continue to do. I/we do appreciate it although I/we may continue to disagree on things.

I wish I knew before I began playing wipes were the way of the future. I might have waited until live or done far few trade runs.

[bondct]

well first, let me state that while I dont always word things correctly, I really do not get emotional over the forums and it is not my goal to belittle people, so if you got that impression then im sorry...

but to answer you your question, what is live... well to me live is at the very least when everything that was here at the start of live enb is built into the game... I really feel that is the minimum starting point of live... All the skills have to be in game and working for all classes (even the 3 new ones that the devs have committed to), and all the sectors are open and working, missions etc... so anyone that has played in live knows that we are at least a few wipes away from that point (and possible a few years... 2 min??? guessing)... as many things not in the game and the mobs are all pretty much set on wimpy mode imho

however, i cant speak for the devs... I will look around and see if there is a mission statement with goals listed somewhere... (would be willing to write it)... if not it prob would not be a bad idea of the devs wrote a mission statement with goals for each test phase so people know what they are getting involved into... so when things like wipes or other questions come up... we could point to it and say we are only doing what you signed up for...

this way people would have a choice as to what phase of testing they want to help with...

[wruck]

mabey they could give each acct a 150 of there choice (race/class) so is not a total grind

btw there will never be "live" will be a rebirth --more stronger tada-o

Edited June 13, 2010 by wruck