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Server Wipe - Pros/Cons


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I agree with the need to do a server wipe to get everyone to start the server back at lvl 0 to test any loopholes for leveling up. Here's just an idea take it for what its worth, anyone that played MCO up to sunset will remember this. At the end of MCO for the last month or so, the devs ramped up everything, you made 10 times as much money and gained xp 10 times faster, so players that hadn't gotten to the higher levels would be able to do so in a lot less time so they could experience that aspect of the game before it shut down. If you plan on doing another server wipe before ST5 starts, consider doing something similar the last week or so beforehand. Players who are at like lvl80 or something could get to 150 in a couple days so they can experience what its like to do a raid in the fishbowl or take on a 66 mane without getting killed in one shot. (never made it to 150 myself in live and currently at OL68 on my PP would like to see what 150 is like before the next wipe and having to start all over again)

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we probably would have to wipe to go into ST5 to check that all the loophole hacks have been removed. We could probably keep the toons, but they'd need to be reset to level 0.

As far as I can see the only need for another player wipe before we go live is to check that leveling hacks are all fixed - in that regard it benefits everyone to report leveling hacks you may find.

Hello, Well I guess I will put in my 2 cents on this matter. You keep saying that players are lvl'n due to all these loopholes in the game, well as you can see I have 8 active toons and have not used any such loopholes to lvl them up, but just plain old hard game work. There are many ways to lvl up a toon and infact I wanted to have a contest lvl'n up a PS, but the idea didn't fly to well. As to another player wipe I would hate to see this, not for the reason you think, but incase you all forgot we had well over 400 players playing everyday in ST3, now it is rare to see over 250 and since about 80% of the players are duel boxing now I would be willing to bet there is never more then 100 players online at any given time. Having another wipe just as players are now getting to lvl 150 would just wipe out another 25% of the players which would problie criple the game.

Another option that I think everyone could deal with is something David & I talked about in that it would be better to just ask all the players to start a couple of new toons. This would give the programmers & dev's to test out the new stuff and also let the players keep the toons they have. I know I for one who have 8 active toons, 5 mules & 15 guild vault toons would have no problem in doing. Few players problie spend more time playing this game then I do and the thought of have to wipe out all the toons is really not something I would like either and would also problie take a break until there was no more player wipes. Alot of the players talk to me, well the ones that come on TS3 mostly and I know many that feel the same as I do. I just don't want to see this game die due to player wipes and yes I know it is a stress test.

Anyway, that is my 2 cents for what is worth! TTYL :-)

Merlin

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I agree with Merlin, if at all possible to not have a wipe unless there is like a total system meltdown. To many ppl alot of time in what they have at this point to have to start all over. And i personally really dont wanna have to do trade runs for another 3 weeks again at this time lol.

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I think that if you gotta wipe... then make trade levels free or 4x xp or sumtin... imo the biggest reason that people dont like wipes is the endlessly mind numbing amount of trade runs you need to do... so start us at 0/0/50 and no one will mind the wipe...

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If we have to wipe, we have to wipe. Like Tienbau said, we want to discover how some players seem to always make it to 100+ in three to four days. We know it's not "plain ole hard work" as merlin put it, because it's mathematically impossible unless you've got two or three people playing the same character in shifts. On top of this, we can see when you log in and log out, so we know that is also not the case. We discovered a few this time around and patched them. The wipes will continue until all those cheap methods are turned in and it takes an expected amount of time to make it to the end of the leveling process. (translation: the beatings will continue until morale improves! :) )

We don't have any intents on wiping for a while yet. We're going to be implementing the last of the major systems to be sure we have at least a workable solution before we go into any other stages of testing. Once that is all built and functional we'll look at another test.

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If we have to wipe, we have to wipe. Like Tienbau said, we want to discover how some players seem to always make it to 100+ in three to four days. We know it's not "plain ole hard work" as merlin put it, because it's mathematically impossible unless you've got two or three people playing the same character in shifts. On top of this, we can see when you log in and log out, so we know that is also not the case. We discovered a few this time around and patched them. The wipes will continue until all those cheap methods are turned in and it takes an expected amount of time to make it to the end of the leveling process. (translation: the beatings will continue until morale improves! ;) )

We don't have any intents on wiping for a while yet. We're going to be implementing the last of the major systems to be sure we have at least a workable solution before we go into any other stages of testing. Once that is all built and functional we'll look at another test.

Thank you for the information. Curious, when the remaining major systems are in, will we be able to get more Explore XP just from navs alone, or will per nav Explore XP be adjusted so that players still get into the low 20s on Navs alone?

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maybe wipe everyones char and make everyone lvl up again for like 2-3 weeks to check the lvling pace, then revert back to the last saved backup and we can all pretend like it never happened ;)

We couldn't tell you, or no one would level ;)

Thank you for the information. Curious, when the remaining major systems are in, will we be able to get more Explore XP just from navs alone, or will per nav Explore XP be adjusted so that players still get into the low 20s on Navs alone?

Technically, there are enough navs at the experience they are giving to take you to 50 now, but many of them are hidden and not easy to find unless you know EXACTLY where they are. :) However, we'll look at adjusting this where we can as balancing comes along. I know it's a hassle to do this stuff again, but look at it from another perspective, at least you have jobs this time around and not just trade runs and navs.

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Technically, there are enough navs at the experience they are giving to take you to 50 now, but many of them are hidden and not easy to find unless you know EXACTLY where they are. ;) However, we'll look at adjusting this where we can as balancing comes along. I know it's a hassle to do this stuff again, but look at it from another perspective, at least you have jobs this time around and not just trade runs and navs.

Thanks for the info. Next go around, will have to get VERY busy with my JE and find them, my JW and JT will really appreciate them.

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If we have to wipe, we have to wipe. Like Tienbau said, we want to discover how some players seem to always make it to 100+ in three to four days. We know it's not "plain ole hard work" as merlin put it, because it's mathematically impossible unless you've got two or three people playing the same character in shifts. On top of this, we can see when you log in and log out, so we know that is also not the case. We discovered a few this time around and patched them. The wipes will continue until all those cheap methods are turned in and it takes an expected amount of time to make it to the end of the leveling process. (translation: the beatings will continue until morale improves! wink.gif )

We don't have any intents on wiping for a while yet. We're going to be implementing the last of the major systems to be sure we have at least a workable solution before we go into any other stages of testing. Once that is all built and functional we'll look at another test.

Hello, well I tell you what, I will start a new toon and you can follow me around for 2 to 3 days and within 3 days I can get a toon to lvl 100 and I don't have to cheat to do so. It is very simple my friend, all you have to do is for one day take one of your toons that has the whole map explored and tour the new toon along with 4 other new toons that if you have tight guilds will make. 1st day explore lvl 50. Ok, 2nd day I will take my new toon out with one of my lvl 150 progens and kill a bunch of low lvl mobs and let my new toon loot for about 3 to 4 hours, do a trade and poof, 15 to 20 more lvl's, Spend another 3 to 4 hours killing higher lvl mobs and loot lvl 4 & 5 stuff and there is another 10 lvl's. Lets see 50+20+10=lvl 80 by the end of the 2nd day. Now we don't start any combat until the 3rd day which meens you have problie lvl 4 or 5 shields by now and it is very easy to kill 10 to 15 lvl's above your lvl. Easilly getting 20 lvl's in combat on day 3! So in about 3 days if I put my mind to it I can get to lvl 100 and not do any trade runs. Normally I don't start trade runs until my tl is 25 to 30.

I am not trying to be a smart a_s or anything, but it is very possible to lvl a toon to 100 in a few days and I have done it many times. As long as you do not make the mistake of doing combat right off the bat and get your defences up you will be fine. I always fight mob's 10 to 15 lvl's above my cl which drives some people nuts. In fact I am starting 2 new toons now, a PS & JS which are the only 2 races I don't have. Since I am the main builder and leader of my guild and am always helping out the new players I don't get the time to play all the time. Now that I am joining the dev team which I am excided about I will have even less time, but I am looking forward to the challange.

Anyway, there is many ways to lvl a toon without cheating and if you need to cheat to play I feel sorry for those players that because if you have to cheat what is the point of playing in the first place! TTYL :-)

Merlin

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he's talking about getting to 100+ in 2-3 days, immediately after a server wipe. Which means no high level toons to leech from.

Edited by Yuritau
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he's talking about getting to 100+ in 2-3 days, immediately after a server wipe. Which means no high level toons to leech from.

Hello again, well when ST4 started I got 4 of my 8 toons to over lvl 75 in the 1st week and no I didn't use any of the cheats that were around then. I also think that Kyp was refering to what is going on now as after 2 weeks the start of the game doesn't matter all that much. I am sure there was a few players that used exploits in the begainning of ST4, but no more then when WOW, EVE, STO and any of the many other MMO that are around now.

Look, lets get down to the bottem line, when they did the player wipe for ST4 there was a good reason for doing so and we still lost half the players. At the end of ST3 there was always over 400 players everyday and there was not as many duel bowers as there is now. On a good day now there is maybe 225 online and I can assure you 80% them are duel boxing. Doing the player wipe when STO came out was bad timing and with summer around the corner another player wipe anytime soon would also be bad timeing IMHO. I know my better half will keep me busy problie 8 hours a day doing summer things and we also go camping quite alot. I know if lets say they did a wipe today, I would problie decide to take a long break for the summer/fall months. It would be nice to be able to play my high lvl toons now and then without grinding out TR's and all the other begainning stuff. It is nice to have most of that stuff out of the way and have fun playing.

I know a wipe will come sooner or later, but all I ask that there is only one more. Players who want to cheat will always find away to do so no matter how many patches you push thru. Please don't punish the 90% of the players who don't cheat to play by doing a player wipe every 6 months or so. Thanks TTYL :-)

Merlin

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i can do that to with my alts, i mean look at my sigs, 3 over 100 and2 o f them arent very old. i just do trade runs with 2 toons at a time over and over and over and over and over..... you get the idea

once trade is capped the cl and el go up rather fast for the 1st 20-30 lvls doing trade runs

lvling slows down alot after 120ish overall

are you calling this method cheating?

its no more cheat then what merlin does....

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we probably would have to wipe to go into ST5 to check that all the loophole hacks have been removed. We could probably keep the toons, but they'd need to be reset to level 0.

As far as I can see the only need for another player wipe before we go live is to check that leveling hacks are all fixed - in that regard it benefits everyone to report leveling hacks you may find.

Seeing a player wipe in our future, and the thought that the characters will remain but be reduced to zero, this is a good idea, will all our hard earned toys go bye bye as well? There are pro/cons to this but people will swallow it much better if we got to keep our toys we earned.

P.s. will we get founder federation stuff for our ship this time around ( beta people know what I am talking about )

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@Merlin: i expect you to be one, that has not much fun in playing at lower levels. when i read how many toons you create and play simultaneously, then i start to wonder, if multipleboxing is a good thing...and i think it is not! You are taking a mayor xp-time-advantage over playing with yourself instead of the community (at least it reads that way and really no offense!) but then: play as you can enjoy, that is always the main routine, when i am asked ;)

to topic: well, i dont care a whipe, there are harder things in life ;)

but reading TB saying, the servers are about "beta-status" now is GOOD NEWS! Now that gives hope on new content soon, like vrix, mordana, zach garretts quests....cant wait it :P

Greetz!

Para

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we probably would have to wipe to go into ST5 to check that all the loophole hacks have been removed. We could probably keep the toons, but they'd need to be reset to level 0.

As far as I can see the only need for another player wipe before we go live is to check that leveling hacks are all fixed - in that regard it benefits everyone to report leveling hacks you may find.

When ST5 starts, and we're reset to 0, but not wiped, will we also be put back at our Noob stations? Or is it advised that we move our players there prior to the reset?

Also please elaborate more, if you're allowed, on ST5.

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Its not like merlin multibox's an entire team of himself, just 1 other. then he invites guild mates to bring out lowbies to tour and most of have lowbies on standby just for the tours to help him and get our lowbies rolling.

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@Merlin: i expect you to be one, that has not much fun in playing at lower levels. when i read how many toons you create and play simultaneously, then i start to wonder, if multipleboxing is a good thing...and i think it is not! You are taking a mayor xp-time-advantage over playing with yourself instead of the community (at least it reads that way and really no offense!) but then: play as you can enjoy, that is always the main routine, when i am asked wink.gif

to topic: well, i dont care a whipe, there are harder things in life wink.gif

but reading TB saying, the servers are about "beta-status" now is GOOD NEWS! Now that gives hope on new content soon, like vrix, mordana, zach garretts quests....cant wait it smile.gif

Greetz!

Para

Hello, 1st off, I have never played more then 2 toons at anyone time. Now as to only playing the game with myself I do take offence to that as most of my time is spent lvl'n up other players in my guild, building for other members in my guild, spending countless hours each week helping out new players getting thru missions and other stuff in the game. I designing a guild vault system where I started 3 new accounts with 5 toons on each account to hold everything my fellow guildies needed to get to lvl 7 items which I have problie spent close to 500 mil in doing so. I have taken out countless players and not done any looting myself in order for them to get the loot for trade & credits. I guess what I am trying to say is that 80% of my game time is helping out the community in one form or another. Just because I have played this game since Beta in Live and I know the in's & outs of the game and can lvl a toon quickly doesn't meen I don't like playing the game at all lvl's. Infact I just started a new PS yesterday and going to start a JS tommorrow since those are the only 2 I haven't started yet. The JS will be a new thing for me, but had a lvl 150 PS in live.

Oh, for the record, I only got to lvl 37 on the first day because I took my time with him and got 13 trade lvl's in about 3 hours of looting. TTYL :-)

Merlin

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merl if I give you my acct info can you level my TT for me puhlez wink.gif

Hello, sure! :-) but I hold classes every Tuseday & Thursday! lol

Merlin

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Another option that I think everyone could deal with is something David & I talked about in that it would be better to just ask all the players to start a couple of new toons.

I have been thinking this too - if a few people would be willing to do this and write up what did and didn't go well in terms of gaining XP - I'm sure there are some things that don't give enough and others that give way too much too easily - then we probably could get by without the wipe until we actually declare the server as 'open'.

Also as devs we should also have characters that are 'normal' status - I've not used any level or skill hacks on my JE but I am guilty of using the GM commands for creating items, getting around quickly and also for trade runs :-# ... it's very difficult to resist the urge to use hax when you have them, I think I will join anyone who would be open to doing this in creating a new char - who doesn't have access to the hax.

From how I've played the game since the start of ST4 I think if anything there should be more XP for trade runs and selling ores & loot, I'm pretty sure I remember my trade bar going up a lot more after a good run in Arduinne or GO (in live), it doesn't seem to move as much now after a good ore hunt.

Mining XP is better than it was in live, but I think we're pretty unanimous for that because it always should have been better, it's good that after a decent session in the rings & clouds that there's a healthy shift in the blue bar. Explorer types should be able to get good XP just from mining. Combat classes get good combat and trade XP from fighting, and I guess the trade classes do to a lesser extent.

Combat XP is a lot easier to model as we just used the same system as live, so that should be ok.

Anyway we're always up for new suggestions for how to do things differently, sometimes as devs we get a bit burnt out and it's up to you guys to get us going again - it is a really good feeling to go online into the game and just go flying around with people. If I have a secret char he won't induce restart paranoia when I log in either ...

cheers,

TB

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I have been thinking this too - if a few people would be willing to do this and write up what did and didn't go well in terms of gaining XP - I'm sure there are some things that don't give enough and others that give way too much too easily - then we probably could get by without the wipe until we actually declare the server as 'open'.

This is a much better idea IMO, especially since now one can play multiple accts without a virtual machine.. more likely they will actually start a new char when they can still play their existing char at the same time

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The way people leveled after ST4 started:

1. Suicide trade runs - Fixed

2. Progen self destruct trade runs - Fixed

3. Jenquai Return to base trade runs - Fixed

Those were the 3 "quick" ways people were leveling after the start of ST4. As for me now, I've leveled 3 toons to 150 after those fixes. Plan and simple hard work and grinding is the only way I know of to level now.

I think what needs to be addressed is it's obvious each class has their strengths and weaknesses. Traders, Warriors, Explorers. I think there should be bonuses for each of those classes focusing on their chosen profession. IE: Warriors should get bonus to combat experience for killing mobs, explorers bonus exp to exploring, mining, etc and the same for traders (Trade runs).

Right now, Most people grind trade runs to level their toons and then use spillover when reaching TL50. Most of the reasons there is alot of anti-wipe comments here, is most of us don't want to go through that again. I am happy with where I am in the game, minus the lack of end game content. I am currently working on my 5th level 150 toon, doing his missions and leveling him up. I report bugs, I find bugs, I work with dev's testing stuff, I donate funds to the server, which is really all we can do at this point until the game is pushed live.

I promise, if you wipe toons again before the game goes live, It will do nothing but hurt the game. I can personally say we lost at least 10 very active Static guild members after the last wipe because they did not want to level again. I bet other guilds can say the same. Short of their being game breaking, server crashing items or mechanics in the game, I don't see any reason to wipe the server again until the game goes live.

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Another way this could be done without a wipe would be to lockout all existing characters on the server. Your old characters would still be there but, you would have to level up a new toon to level 70 or whatever. When your new character reaches that level your old toons unlock and you could play them a usual.

I have no idea how hard this would be to code but i do see it as a race to the unlock level.

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