2 suggestions I have been thinking about for a while

[Sprotcha]

Hi,

I noticed 2 kind of minor issues that could possibly be resolved. This is just a suggestion, of course and I am not claiming I am offering the best solution for them, improvements are of course welcome.

1. Build ammo for PS / TS

I think most of us will agree that getting PM ammo can be a pain at times if you don't have a main for crafting them for your alt (or nice guildies). I even met some people who didn't bother with pm ammo and were using storebough. I was thinking of adding a new skill that would allow those 2 classes to build up to 4 ammo kinds (considering they get 4 gun slots and might want to use a different gun in each slot). The skill upgrade requirements could somewhat depend on the hull upgrades. The player would be able to analyse and build up to 4 different ammo, and would have the option to delete the known ammo list for learning a new set.

2. Making the Solar sail engine a quest reward

A moderately long / hard quest, primarily aimed for progen who often have a hard time lowering their signature. Either a quest chain rewarding the player with a 200% lv 2 / 3 / 4 Solar Sail. Most of us know that the control bar can be hard to get (the lv1 debris are not that much of an issue in my opinion). I was thinking of asking the progen players to explore the new progen trade routes and eventually reward them with a SS engine after 1/2 runs. I don't know what they are and wether it would be possible, tough. The point would be to mix exploration of some kind with getting a nice useful reward.

[bondct]

i totally agree with the ammo and wouldnt even mind if ammo was removed from the game altogether... I have always had a TT in my arsenal of players and making ammo just flat out sux ballz... anyone who says different is just a liar... making it for yourself is bad enough... but for others... there is just no money in it and it takes too long... just a waste of time imho... having to make ammo wont stop me from using ammo... but anyone who says making ammo does not sux... puhlez....

as for the solar sail... just make the item drop more... it shouldnt be that hard to up the drop rate...

[Allia]

2. Making the Solar sail engine a quest reward

A moderately long / hard quest, primarily aimed for progen who often have a hard time lowering their signature. Either a quest chain rewarding the player with a 200% lv 2 / 3 / 4 Solar Sail. Most of us know that the control bar can be hard to get (the lv1 debris are not that much of an issue in my opinion). I was thinking of asking the progen players to explore the new progen trade routes and eventually reward them with a SS engine after 1/2 runs. I don't know what they are and wether it would be possible, tough. The point would be to mix exploration of some kind with getting a nice useful reward.

In live there was actually something like this. The reward was the lv7 Solar sail 200%.

You could only do it once, lv7 sail was non tradable, non manufactuable. The quest to get it put the lv30 hull upgrades to shame. Was a 2 parter I believe, one part being 17-19 steps and the 2nd being upwards of 23 steps. It revolved around making Zeke's various items found in the database, so one step was secretly more work than one task. (Ex. One step would be Build Zeke's Contraption, would require you to fly several places all over to get the required stuff to make it).

The result was very worth it however: Zeke's SS.

My only problem with it was since it could only be quested once, non manu, non trade...meant that any quality damage to it was irreversible. My JD in live wore her's so much it went under 50% before I stopped using it.

I'd always hoped that TT's lv135 specific skill would of given them a skill to restore quality on equipped devices some day. Maybe once we get everything sorted out and start talking about the 135 skills for jobs that don't have it we can get a quality fixer into game.

[Riia [LDEV]]

My only problem with it was since it could only be quested once, non manu, non trade...meant that any quality damage to it was irreversible. My JD in live wore her's so much it went under 50% before I stopped using it.

Hi

I would have thought that you would have moved up to the lvl 8 Reinforced Solar Sail which was manufacturable.

Riia

[Terrell [BT]]

I'd always hoped that TT's lv135 specific skill would of given them a skill to restore quality on equipped devices some day. Maybe once we get everything sorted out and start talking about the 135 skills for jobs that don't have it we can get a quality fixer into game.

I think TT was suppoed to get Impervious Haven for their L135 Affiliation skill. Was a combat skill that granted temporary invulnerability, but it had a long cooldown time before you could use it again.

[Allia]

Hi

I would have thought that you would have moved up to the lvl 8 Reinforced Solar Sail which was manufacturable.

Riia

My JD never made it to lv8 engines before the game got killed saddly. I was off playing with my PS. ^.~ I just kept getting into trouble. I'd like to go watch Fishbowl fights using my JD's cloak.

I think TT was suppoed to get Impervious Haven for their L135 Affiliation skill. Was a combat skill that granted temporary invulnerability, but it had a long cooldown time before you could use it again.

I'm all for sticking with this if that is what the game devs had planned. I'll still hold out hope for js or pp though!

Edited April 29, 2010 by Raptorred

[Terrell [BT]]

I'm all for sticking with this if that is what the game devs had planned. I'll still hold out hope for js or pp though!

Would be interesting, provided that racial restrictions were waived on quality repair. If not, either both JT and PT would need the skill, or Lore skills would have to be implemented.

[Tyran]

How about rebalancing engines HARDCORE instead of worrying about progen signature with solar sails. Or is this another self-serving thread?

[bondct]

How about rebalancing engines HARDCORE instead of worrying about progen signature with solar sails. Or is this another self-serving thread?

this is definitely a self-serving thread... comeon... you been here long enough to know that

besides... imo there is a good chance that rebalacing engines HARDCORE would totally imbalance the game... there are not enough skill points

[Tenkaris]

just add the SS8 and the Intent for the Resolute

[Sprotcha]

How about rebalancing engines HARDCORE instead of worrying about progen signature with solar sails. Or is this another self-serving thread?

Yes, my 150 PP is eagerly waiting for getting another lv4 SS ontop of the 200% my TE built her weeks ago, just incase her BS8 takes too much damage. I am in no way thinking about the new progen players who wonder why the mobs keep seeing them from the other side of the map.

Edited April 29, 2010 by Sprotcha

[Riia [LDEV]]

How about rebalancing engines HARDCORE instead of worrying about progen signature with solar sails. Or is this another self-serving thread?

Hi

I looked at the engines and they seem fine to me. I have not read any compelling reason why engines should be changed.

The changes I have seen being proposed would only give advantages to certain classes changing the balance between the classes or change the balance between the use of core items and devices. In the later case giving players advantages against mobs. In both cases this would create more work for the Devs to try and restore the balance. I for one don't need more work!

Riia

[Allia]

Honestly can't see why engines should be changed they seemed balanced to me. I remember in live I used to carry around 3 engines (well in vault) on my PS. One with HORRRIBLE sig but wicked fast meant just for trade runs, one with nice combat buffs for fighting, and of coarse SS for mining. There is nothing that says one engine must do it all or you can't keep several around for different things. Even my JD despite loving her ss7 to pieces had a trade run engine in the vault.

As far as the sig thing and 'who wonder why the mobs keep seeing them from the other side of the map' as a progen, that's something every race gets to learn about. Terrans and even Jenqui get to deal with sig worries at some point. I don't consider the progen to be horribly disadvantaged by their sig over the other races. If anything they are advantaged becuase they are more likely to be able to handle the agro (more boom sticks). Sig is just part of the game and every race has tactics/abilities to deal with the 'consequences' of being 'seen'.

As a PS in live, I can tell you are plenty more ways of reducing sig then just a engine. You just must dress for the occasion and not expect low lv sig 100% of time (its not the progen way). Some low lv1 guns have reduce ship sig and the lv2 gloom's device can reduce sig (it was build-able in live, some reason not atm, but sure you could ask a JD to help you out). Stack that stuff up and go mining. I could get my sig as low as a JE in live with various gear. Point is, don't expect a 'single use god mode' set. Gear isn't static, therefor don't think about having just one to do it all, you can have as many as you want to get the job done.

[Terrell [BT]]

Since the warp cap is 6K, instead of the 5K that was in Live, the upper level engines have more use for travel. In Live a JE could easily reach the warp cap with L7 Navigate, a L4 engine and the right gear. L7+ engine, L7 Navigate, and the right gear necessary to go 6K on a JE.

[bondct]

the only reason to rebalance engines is to help the poor screwed TS... cuz build engines is a worthless skill... it has to be down there around the last skills to be picked as it has the least utility... even with the raise in warp cap... and the easiest fix to that is not to redo engines as there are many more important things to do than redo sumtin that is actually kinda ok... I say kinda cuz you really should not be hittin warp cap with L4 or L5 engines as hittin warp cap is almost a silly thing to focus on anyway... so the easy fix would be build reactor...

[Terrell [BT]]

Build reactor on the Scout isn't gonna happen. No point to building as a JT or PT if Scout can outbuild both of them in the only build they have that the TT can't already outbuild them on.

[Allia]

the only reason to rebalance engines is to help the poor screwed TS... cuz build engines is a worthless skill... it has to be down there around the last skills to be picked as it has the least utility... even with the raise in warp cap... and the easiest fix to that is not to redo engines as there are many more important things to do than redo sumtin that is actually kinda ok... I say kinda cuz you really should not be hittin warp cap with L4 or L5 engines as hittin warp cap is almost a silly thing to focus on anyway... so the easy fix would be build reactor...

I'd actually have to disagree with this. Unlike other explore classes, TS doesn't have any 'sneaky' skills to rely on. Instead of powerdown or cloak TS has raw out running speed. A player made engine has improved thrust, something that greatly helps TS out.

One thing I did think of while reading this thread and would like to suggest is that all NPC reward items (unique non buildables) always be given out as 200%. The lv30 bonus upgrade missions for example would result in a 200% reward (they are long and evolved enough to merit that I'd think). Of coarse things like buildable tradeable rewards wouldn't need a 200% awarded at completion as you can get a player to make one.

[bondct]

I'd actually have to disagree with this. Unlike other explore classes, TS doesn't have any 'sneaky' skills to rely on. Instead of powerdown or cloak TS has raw out running speed. A player made engine has improved thrust, something that greatly helps TS out.

raw thrust for outrunning speed!!! puhlez... I had a 150 JE and PS in live... you know... the other two explorer classes... maybe you heard of them... my ps ran from nothing... why bother, it was easier to kill it or if nuttin else menace it (and then kill it anyway)... as for my je... his sig was so low, I would have to paint my ship in day-glo orange with a sign saying please shoot me in order to get a mobs attention... and then again there were plenty of skills to keep me in the fight... why do you think a JE only gets 3 weapons... add a 4th and you get OP...

but the scout... yeah i see your point... he has the best skill of all... run away run away? and the way mobs are leashed now lotta good that does...

my .04 (inflation)

[Allia]

I wasn't saying that TS has the best skill of all explorers by running away. It is however the best skill a TS has to deal with something like say 'pop rocks' if you remember those. Run away then snipe with ML. The faster you can run as a TS the better for this strategy.

And yes I have heard of PS and JE, I played them in live too up to 150. I commented on theirs skills no less as being things a TS 'doesn't have' to rely on. I didn't say PS and JE need running speed, they have other things. I mean its a well known fact that in live JE could live off a lv4 SS for all life.

TS, however, needs running speed. Or at least that was what was originally intended. I realize our current environment is not live so it won't work the same. But if you consider the original intent (something the devs are working towards) build engines would help TS. PS and JE are not TS and we are talking about how build engines is a 'worthless' skill for TS. I'd completely agree build engine being worthless for PS or JE...they don't need it. I'm just saying I can see why TS gets 'build engines' not 'build reactors'.

Edited May 1, 2010 by Raptorred

[bondct]

well if you played a PS then you know the drill... pop rock... bang its a mob... turn to face it... fire all weapons... kill mob... go back to mining... and sorry for the sarcasm I guess it sounded better than it read... its just from leveling all classes, I never had a problem with engines from a thrust perspective... so you make a class and you say well we are gonna give u more thrust as your signature skill is to me... ok well thanks but why? I dont need more thrust...

I think that and imo and just imo... a lot of these tweaks circle around while people are leveling... and to me those tweaks are useless... you spend maybe 20 days game time leveling and in my case on 3 different toons... the next 100 to 130 days played at L150...