Thought Question: Is it possible to build a JE that could beat a PW in PvP?

[chroster]

my main in live was a JE and I don't see this class being capable of beating a PW in a 1on1.

I mean 80k hull with 70%+ HDC - how long is that supposed to take?

[Gobblu]

The trick is keeping the pw reactor down. Yes it did take a while to pound through the hull. A fight can sometimes seem to take forever, and I couldn't honestly say how long it took me (has been a couple of years after all). Once I managed to get the pw's reactor down, he couldn't fire very often (which kept the reactor drained also), and I could hit him with all my beams and have time to warp back out before he could turn to face me.

[Vinzent Zeppelin[IS]]

I'm still thinking the Progen group would win in most cases. My Sentinel can activate Gravity Link from about 9.5k away in just under one second, and if the skill reliably prevents warp as well, it would be enough to win the battle even without the several other murderous combat abilities the Progen have at their disposal. (Kassina never goes into battle without a level 7 Repulsor Field, either, which returns 60% of all damage dealt -- and she has a tougher shield than most Jenquai.)

[Tyran]

When first reading this topic I was hoping for a more interesting scenario, like:

JE vs PW

In a mud wrestle

Both female

Bikinis with the not-too-durable strings holding them together

Now if shakti were opened and it had a station let it not have a disco...and instead have a mud pool so we could see who wins, PLZ.

[StarSeekerVDS]

Aye, but that contest would be about as unfair and about as unpleasant to watch as a human female wrestling a female gorilla.

[Vinzent Zeppelin[IS]]

Aye, but that contest would be about as unfair and about as unpleasant to watch as a human female wrestling a female gorilla.

Come on, they may dress funny, but Jenquai women aren't that unattractive.

Edited April 7, 2010 by Vinzent Zeppelin

[C Del[IS]]

Come on, Jenquai girls aren't that unattractive.

Oh but they are.

[pull4rise]

the only who can own a pw is another progen...the rest can shake it.and this has been proven in live.

i forgot to mention....alot of ppl talking about seeing cloaked....in live in the arena see cloaked didnt work...tac8 or wotever device or skill didnt work to see cloaked..but i fought alot in arena on a ps or pw and nothing could beat me besides another progen which i already mention in my previous post even the most uber jd with combatcloak couldnt kill my ps with is best since he could only give me 1 hit ...then menace and doomed...so not even go to a pw which is even alot tougher low hull low shields is doomed and then another thing about scanrange even if a coma would hit a progen...now there is a PL called spitter my pw has 10,5k scanrange so coma bring it on lol even with the old digibeams where u could have like 8-9k range u would try to kite it didnt help since it was weak dmg and beams show easy where ur at so follow the beam and if the je or jd stops shooting shield is full in notime...there is really noway a jenquai can beat a progen even a lvl140 progen could take on a maxed out jd or je if the progen knows wot he is doing.

[irrelevant]

i forgot to mention....alot of ppl talking about seeing cloaked....in live in the arena see cloaked didnt work...tac8 or wotever device or skill didnt work to see cloaked..

That is false.

I don't know if simply having a device was enough, but the skill most definitely worked in arena, from personal experience...

most of us already did concede that 1 on 1 is not a chance, but does nobody else think group of the 3 classes verses progen 3 classes stand a chance? Guess we'll have to find out once arenas are back in.

Edited April 7, 2010 by irrelevant

[Terrell [BT]]

That is false.

I don't know if simply having a device was enough, but the skill most definitely worked in arena, from personal experience...

most of us already did concede that 1 on 1 is not a chance, but does nobody else think group of the 3 classes verses progen 3 classes stand a chance? Guess we'll have to find out once arenas are back in.

Jenquai often have items with "improved cloaking" on our ships, since it's a fairly common buff on our equipment. Improved Cloaking, does reduce the chance that someone with a see cloaked buff will see you, but it doesn't make it impossible for an opponent with see cloaked to see you. Improved Cloaking shortened the power-up time on cloak level 1-4, and increased the "Stealth Strike" bonus on L5 Cloak. Don't know if Improved Cloaking affects being seen by those toons that have the Scan skill. (All Jenquai, Terran and Progen explorers)

[pull4rise]

That is false.

I don't know if simply having a device was enough, but the skill most definitely worked in arena, from personal experience...

most of us already did concede that 1 on 1 is not a chance, but does nobody else think group of the 3 classes verses progen 3 classes stand a chance? Guess we'll have to find out once arenas are back in.

this is not false doing pvp in arena with a ps with max scan which normally should c cloaked aswell it didnt work only at start of the arena it worked after they took out chainmenace they also took out c cloaked else it would be pointless to even go into arena being a jenquai.

[Homeboy42069]

A pw's dps comes mainly from shield sap-compare the weapons dps, and give the pw his extra slot over a te-without sap progen is outgunned-now, in live when the turbo's stacked right, a jd could easily beat a pw in pvp and laugh

and i agree with pulverize unless turbo's restack jenpie only fight each other pvp

Edited April 19, 2010 by Homeboy

[pull4rise]

A pw's dps comes mainly from shield sap-compare the weapons dps, and give the pw his extra slot over a te-without sap progen is outgunned-now, in live when the turbo's stacked right, a jd could easily beat a pw in pvp and laugh

and i agree with pulverize unless turbo's restack jenpie only fight each other pvp

the dps from a progen basicly doesnt come from shieldsap...here in this st its a good added dps skill..but im mainly talking about live...a te never outguns a pw...since pw is the pure warrior...all his skills are based on atk unlike a tw and ur last comment is even funny a jd would never beat a pw a pw could even let the jd have a head start of letting him have taken his whole shield and still win.

[Yargnit]

I basically wrote the book on JE combat tactics during live (Literally, I had multi-page documents detailing the strategies for fighting various MoBs as a JE), and In my opinion it would be physically possible, but extremely hard to pull off both in terms of skill required and time taken. (Assuming we're also fighting a competent PW of course) In my prime, with a hefty amount of time put in pre-engagement, to planning my exact tactics I could have probably pulled it off baring unlucky rolls on the RNG when it comes to de-buffs and so forth landing. But as others have stated, one wrong move, and it's over virtually instantly. In live Coma use allowed me to solo mobs PW's even were generally incapable of killing, however doing so was really only practical from a standpoint of saying i did it, due to the massive time required.

Now if you gave me only 1 chance, or made it a best of series, I'd bet on the PW any day. But give me 10 shots, and I'd most likely have been able to pull it off at least once. It's just a matter of living long enough to get into a rhythm, and then maintaining said rhythm long enough to kill them. I've got a few ideas for tactics that may work, but it's been SO long since I used said tactics that it's hard to say for certain. Going in with a 100% developed strategy is an absolute must though any time lost trying to decide what to do next and it's over.

[pull4rise]

I basically wrote the book on JE combat tactics during live (Literally, I had multi-page documents detailing the strategies for fighting various MoBs as a JE), and In my opinion it would be physically possible, but extremely hard to pull off both in terms of skill required and time taken. (Assuming we're also fighting a competent PW of course) In my prime, with a hefty amount of time put in pre-engagement, to planning my exact tactics I could have probably pulled it off baring unlucky rolls on the RNG when it comes to de-buffs and so forth landing. But as others have stated, one wrong move, and it's over virtually instantly. In live Coma use allowed me to solo mobs PW's even were generally incapable of killing, however doing so was really only practical from a standpoint of saying i did it, due to the massive time required.

Now if you gave me only 1 chance, or made it a best of series, I'd bet on the PW any day. But give me 10 shots, and I'd most likely have been able to pull it off at least once. It's just a matter of living long enough to get into a rhythm, and then maintaining said rhythm long enough to kill them. I've got a few ideas for tactics that may work, but it's been SO long since I used said tactics that it's hard to say for certain. Going in with a 100% developed strategy is an absolute must though any time lost trying to decide what to do next and it's over.

if there arena comes here and it works like in live and all the devices and stuff work aswell...ill give u a 1000 tries and bet u wont kill me once on a je...coz here its even easier then in live thx to the spitter ur coma debuff would still be in the range where i could c and grav link u....and u know wot happens after grav link....

[Phorlaug[IS]]

With the right conditions, equipment, nerves of steel and tacktics

i'd say a JE has a chance.

Just make sure you fight in Valkyrie Twins (With Maxed Enviromental Shield) and at NAV "Field of danger"

I know I wouldn't want to be the PW or any Char going up against a JE under those conditions

In about 3-7 minutes the PW shield and reactor will be toast !

Then all the JE has to do is chip away at the players hull.

Can't shoot with NO ENERGY !

Phorlaug...

Edited October 14, 2010 by Phorlaug

[Hexersup[IS]]

if there arena comes here and it works like in live and all the devices and stuff work aswell...ill give u a 1000 tries and bet u wont kill me once on a je...coz here its even easier then in live thx to the spitter ur coma debuff would still be in the range where i could c and grav link u....and u know wot happens after grav link....

Just wait til all is working as it should then we can speak about a fight in arena.

If balanced a bit it shows a bit different maybe, but normally in live i would say it could be a tie between a Jenquai and a PW possible but not a win for a JE/JT. Maybe with a bit luck and a long time a win for a JD.

greets

Hexergirl 

[Phorlaug[IS]]

I think an Arena is too much of a controlled environment, both the JE and PW would have to use every bit of their skills to defend, escape, manipulate the NPC that were trying to kill them while they are in PVP.

We can't make it easy for the JE

And it would be far more realistic and interesting to do PVP outside an arena. (realistic? lol )

Phorlaug....

[Whitelighter]

In E&B's version of PvP, the PW would have a huge advantage over any Jenquai. The whole Jenquai race is based on the standard MMO archtype Rogue/Assassin. The whole advantage of that type of class is removed in any duel type setting, which is all the arena really is/was. It was nothing more than a fancy duel.

Now throw this fight out in a real PvP setting and the JD would have a huge boost in his chances to win. Most PWs wouldn't fly around with a see cloaked item equiped. Scan boost is likely, but not see cloaked. If the JD was set up to PvP they'd most likely carry a mix bag of items to swap out as needed. So the Jd could fly in, CombatCloak then pop out and most likely take out the PWs shields in 2-3 volleys. While also throwing out debuffs during the initial barrage. Now the PW has no shields, is scan blind and if the JD has any sense - he also threw out a Energy Leech. All the JD has to do is Swap out 3-4 beams for EMP damage beams and get into Combat Cloak. By now, assuming no lag is present, this has taken 5-6 seconds. You can figure 2-3 of those seconds the PW would be in reaction mode, locating his attacker and turning to face them. That leaves the PW 2-4 seconds to prevent the JD from entering Cloak again, and the JD simply has to fly through the PW to avoid that nasty damage.

The JD simply pops out of cloak, having swapped some weapon types around before entering cloak. open up with 1-2 plasma weapons and 3-4 EMP weapons with another Energy Leech, and the PW is probably damn near out of reactor. From then on its simply a matter of keeping enough EMP beams to keep the reactor dry, and enough plasma/energy/whatever beams to get through the PW hull. It would be a slow kill for sure, and require some luck on the JDs part. But it *IS* possible.

For a JE, I don't think its very possible. The purest Explorer vs the purest Warrior is too lop-sided. But Warrior vs Warrior, in a real PvP setting, the JD has a good chance to beat anyone. Of course there are a lot of other factors for the JD vs PW, but I'm not getting into all of it lol.

[bondct]

I propose that if it IS possible, it be made impossible, simply because a PW is the most warrior of the warrior classes and JE is the most explorer of the explorer classes. They only situation where a JE should beat PW is if JE is more skilled/better informed about gear, in which case it should be an easy win for anybody.

And I agree about the PS comment; the see cloak + 11-12 k scan range makes it impossible for most jenquai to beat a competent PS as well. Now this is all one on one.

I propose this match instead:

A group of JD/JE/JS versus a group of PW/PS/PP, equally skilled, and assuming they have access to all the best gear. Might be more interest . and lets say that compulsory contemplation is working as well, though i think its a decent match up even without.

if I am not mistaken this ability you ask for is coming out in the same patch that the TS gets build reactor

[Merquise]

I'm a PW, played PW most of my time in Live and on the ST4 server.

I dont think that a JE can win from a PW under normal conditions, with both players equally skilled.

Sure, JE might get lucky every now and then but normally speaking the JE should not be able to win.

However....

IF I were to make a JE, and try to kill a PW I'd try it with Coma, as suggested.

If the Pw has Spitter then JE has a problem.

In that case I would try the Cube ot Leech and EMP beam combo, with 1 plasma.

That device/beam combo then combined with warp-in/warp-out technique might yield some victories.

Cube the PW to kill his shield and reactor recharge. Warp in with lazarus device, zap, warp out.

JE is doomed of course if PW gets a grav link to hit, but hey maybe JE gets lucky.

Will take aaaaaages to kill the hull but if you can keep the reactor to 0 of the PW, Je might win.

Other strategy is level 9 proto beams and DG, combined with Vindis beam focus. Should give about 8.5k beam range (which is rediculous imho...)

Zap the Pw from a range he can;t shoot back.

However.. small note: in today's EnB, I'd always equip a Binder Octo. Then use Grav Link 5, with the binder it triggers in like 0.5 seconds, and due to the increased levels the range on GL is about 7.5k.... If GL from PW's work the same as GL from Tengu's (vs players) then anything but other PW's are toast in any arena enviroment. Hell.. in ANY enviroment!

Last strategy is for JE's to stop selling the ores for PW's to make their ammo.

After a month or so they are all out of ammo then an army of JE's could kill all PW's.

Eehh.. unless PE's start mining that is...