Any plans to give seekers Lev 9 devices again?

[Willy]

As the title says, at the end of ST3 seekers were given lev 9 devices and lev 8 engines. The changes didn't get carried over to ST4. Just wondering if there were any plans to fix it.

[Terrell [BT]]

As the title says, at the end of ST3 seekers were given lev 9 devices and lev 8 engines. The changes didn't get carried over to ST4. Just wondering if there were any plans to fix it.

I'm wondering this too. In my opinion, what the JT gets to put in her 5 device slots, may actually be more important than whether it's a L8 or L9 device. However without L9 devices on the JT no one can use the Manticore's Dread Torment and L9 devices don't really make sense for the other 2 Traders, without the JT having L9 devices (given her Explorer racial traits). Also, I suspect that there is an error in the database on this device.

Manticore's Dread Torment (Level IX)

Level 9 Device

Traders Only

Weaken Energy (Activated)

Deflect Chemical (Equip)

Increase Speed (Equip)

Scan Blind (Activated)

I suspect the buff I bolded is supposed to be an Equip buff, rather than an activated buff since most L9 devices have debuffs. Would be really nice if it was correct, simply because the JT would get a device that debuffs energy and blinds scanners, meaning she can use 1 device slot intstead of 2 on debuffers.

Could a Dev please comment on this?

[fuulishone]

A quick google search shows that the scan blind is activated according to data found at http://home.swipnet.se/Hubba/devices.htm (last updated 2005-01-24) which is probably old enough to be based on live. Seems like a good enough set of info to go on (not the least of which, there's 200% info on that page which is nice too .

[Terrell [BT]]

A quick google search shows that the scan blind is activated according to data found at http://home.swipnet.se/Hubba/devices.htm (last updated 2005-01-24) which is probably old enough to be based on live. Seems like a good enough set of info to go on (not the least of which, there's 200% info on that page which is nice too .

Sounds like an extremely good reason for JT to raise her Device Tech to L9. Also gives her even more reason to use Ghost's Edge beams. Thank you.

[mistergreen]

What about the lvl 9 Diplomats that no one could use?

Being a trader wouldn't they get lvl 9 engines as well? If the devices = explorers. PT can't use lvl 9 engines because of their racial weakness, but it doesn't mean the JS can't. Although it would limit them to lvl 8 reactors, which shouldn't be that much of a problem being they can boost their cap to help counter that.

[Terrell [BT]]

What about the lvl 9 Diplomats that no one could use?

Being a trader wouldn't they get lvl 9 engines as well? If the devices = explorers. PT can't use lvl 9 engines because of their racial weakness, but it doesn't mean the JS can't. Although it would limit them to lvl 8 reactors, which shouldn't be that much of a problem being they can boost their cap to help counter that.

Seekers can't do L8 reactor, Jenquai racial strength is reactors. I could see the JT getting either L8 devices and L9 engines, or L9 engines and L8 devices. Depending on which the devs decide is more important. Her explorer racial traits, or her trade profession on this issue. The other 2 techs are decided by her race. I think that her Trader profession is preferred throughout her skill tree, not just in the 5 builds, but in her explore based skills all being 5 capped. I don't think it's mandatory for the JT to have L9 devices, but if any trader would have them, JT would get first choice because of her explorer traits.

Mostly I'm curious to know which way it's ultimately going to go, since JT has had L9 engines and L8 devices at least from start of ST3 until the implemenation of the Reactor Optimization skill, then it was switched to L8 Engines and L9 devices. But in ST4 it's back the other way.

[bondct]

personally i think that the best way to straighten out this whole build use mess is to make buildable engines above L5 that are worth a damn... imo right now terrans get screwed over since there is no real good I MUST UPGRADE reason for engines... look at the other racial stengths reactors and shields... its not even the slightest consideration not to max out those two categories... but engines.. once your breakin 4k warp... which is easily doable with L5 engines even for a progen, who cares about that category... yeah there are a few good engines worth upgrading for... but imo there are no MUST engines...

and that is what this and many other similiar debates are all about... if you stop what you are doing and make engines a MUST have for everyone like shields and reactors then imo most of these debates go away...

this could be done in 2 ways, with a combination of nerfs and buffs (not perfect solutions just ideas that need work but a start kinda)...

nerfs

reduce the warp speed progression from 250 per level to 175 - this would make it so you have to upgrade engines and navigate to get to 5k warp or higher (making a meh skill highly useful as well)

buffs

start putting turbo weapons on engines at a lower level (L5?)

starting at L5 make engines with a plus 55 activated warp buff that stacks with kraken but lasts half as long and increases by 55 each level upto L9

start putting energy conservation weapons on the turbo weapons engines (L5?)...

etc etc etc...

I know people will cry like mad and flame the idea that I would even suggest this... but to get back to the main push... reactors and shields are 100% MUST UPGRADES and engines are will do it when I get around to it...

I remember back in live on my TT there was a point where all the TT's even alts had the L9 troller engine (and I kept passing on it cuz I didnt have L9 eng or L9 build eng) and the guild eventually forced one of these engines on me and said go upgrade all due to the fact that no one else could take it... that argument would never happen with a shield or reactor...

[Terrell [BT]]

I do think that engines need improvement. I do like the idea of putting useful buffs on L6-9 engines to make them more desirable. I don't like the idea of reducing the amount of warp gained per engine level, but I do like the other ideas you post. There is a buff that stacks with the Unicorn/Kraken reactor, and the RR+, it's called Additive Turbo Warp, and comes in both equip and activated versions. It might be a nice buff to put on some of the high end engines. Particularily those intended for travel. In Live there was a device that PE and JE could use with that buff on it. There are some nice non-manu engines out there, and while those can encourage some players to upgrade their engine tech, they don't encourage Terrans or Seekers to put points into build engine. Also in live L8+ engines could warp through some gravity wells (SS8 could). That might help to implent that as well.

Edit: Also on engines the SS8 does need some competition

Also with a JT, one can put engines and devices up to L8, max shields, reactors, & beams. You can do that and still have sufficent points to max Recharge shields, Reactor Optimization, Scan, Cloak, Negotiate, and 2 build skills, plus 3 points for Fold Space by L150. You will have 3 points remaining, and the only things left to put points into would be that last level of device or engine (whichever ultimately gets L9), Projectiles, and the other 3 build skils.

[Tyran]

To be honest I don't see why such an innately weak profession as the JT should'nt be an exception to the rule by having Level 9 reactor, engine and devices.

It would not be a big deal at all and that is coming from someone who is not considering playing JT.

[ghent96]

Jenqs are a device race, and should all get L9 devices.

As for engines - faster speeds could = more lag from position calculations and updates. At least this was the case in original EnB, and in general for most MMOGs. Engine upgrades could be incentivized with better buffs on higher level engines, as well as a more gradual increase curve for thrust/warp across levels of engines.

[Terrell [BT]]

Jenqs are a device race, and should all get L9 devices.

As for engines - faster speeds could = more lag from position calculations and updates. At least this was the case in original EnB, and in general for most MMOGs. Engine upgrades could be incentivized with better buffs on higher level engines, as well as a more gradual increase curve for thrust/warp across levels of engines.

With a more gradual increase in Warp by level, would the L8 engines still typically have around 4K warp before buffs from other equipment? Say the difference in warp between a L2 and L3 engine be less than the difference between a L7 and L8 engine? Same with thrust?

[dcwestby]

I'm not quite sure where you get the idea that seekers are limited to L8 reactors when in the skill list the dots go to L9 reactors. But I can agree on the L9 engines being a head scratcher. Theres no real point to getting L9 engines for anyone, unless perhaps one has a TE, but even then, L9 engines is not needed for any jenq class.

Sorry for replying to this a month later..

[Willy]

Actually, thanks for the bump. I was just thinking about this again the other day, and remembered that a DEV never replied on this. Maybe they'll see it now. I've been saving up some lev 9 devices and skill points for if/when this gets put back in. I'd like an answer either way so I can use the SP's.

Edited May 4, 2010 by Willy