Auto Registration Enforced....?

[bowlingballhead]

Alright. You're being reasonable here. Let me explain ways that not auto-registering alters game balance.

The most obvious is, of course, trade runs. I do personally think that a death or wormhole should wipe out xp profit, but in addition to the auto-registering.

The core of the problem is that distance is a game mechanic in E&B. Some things are close, and some things are far away. You are expected to take time to get to them. Anything that short-circuits that is altering the balance, and requires adjusting. You've just given people a remarkably easy way to get to pick a space station and be able to return to it almost instantly. If you can go mining and hunting and what have you in Antares knowing that all you have to do is die to return to Somerled, that presents a problem. Debt and equipment degradation are meant to make this unattractive, but they're not making it unattractive enough. You have subverted the entire concept of putting distance and multiple zones between one place and another. You have made wormhole much less important (because you don't need it to get back, do you?) You have made upgraded engines less important. You have required restrictions on deaths and wormholes in trade runs to become draconianly harsh (I think they should be, but you're forcing that) because you've made travel from one trade run end to the other nearly instantaneous, especially if you have any self-damaging power like a Warrior's Heart.

Putting in auto-registration greatly erodes the player's ability to control this loophole in getting from one place to another. He can't access his vault, vendors, or terminals without changing where he's registered. Just knowing that he's likely to end up registering somewhere by entering a station erodes this control further. To abuse the power large scale would require planning, and it becomes a subtle encouragement to just give up and accept the fact that he has to actually travel to get from place to place.

In a way, all of this is moot. The only documentation the devs have found of live says that auto-registration was the rule. They've been very gung-ho about clinging to precedents like that. You may remember something else, but they won't trust it if they've got screenshots and manual pages that say you register when you dock. I've seen that on other issues. I hope that I have impressed upon you that this is a game balance issue, though, and trade runs are only the overt and obvious example.

[mistergreen]

People face it. Unless you have clear hard facts written down or a screen shot, the devs are going by what they have written down before them.

You all say that return to base is worthless now, but how so? By the time you have it most the time you will be hunting in Cooper, Ardus, Roc, aany of the shears and those are gates away from a station. So take cooper, you reg at OMP, yer out of ammo and full of loot, have yer JD buddy poof you right back to OMP or F7 depending on where you regged last.

Now those remember the oh crud moments of I last regged in Antares, well that cause you forgot to stop at OMP to reg before you joined the cooper hunting trip.

[Floss]

Now those remember the oh crud moments of I last regged in Antares, well that cause you forgot to stop at OMP to reg before you joined the cooper hunting trip.

That's exactly how I know it's wrong.

A terran needs to dock for:

1) ammo

2) sell stuff

In Antares, loot was non-stack, and there was no vendor or manu term there. You had to dock somewhere else to get more bullets and sell your crap. No way in hell could you go raid elsewhere without stopping somewhere else, especially a TW with more limited space.

All of that aside, what is the purpose of auto-reg? The comment about trade runs effecting the economy is a joke, because the profits from trade are a joke. 10 mins of GSP > 10 hours of trade runs.

SD needs to be corrected, so that can't be the reason either as it is unrelated.

Doing a pro/con I get:

Pro: none

Cons: lvl 7 summon is crippled

Thoughts? Whether it was/wasn't in live should be secondary to "how will this make the game better".

The argument about shortcutting is also crap, wormhole destroys lvl 7 summon if that's the concern. WH to swoop > xipe > bbw is 3 mins, almost the same as QAR registration. Every game has travel shortcuts that are earned.

[Azasha]

That's exactly how I know it's wrong.

A terran needs to dock for:

1) ammo

2) sell stuff

In Antares, loot was non-stack, and there was no vendor or manu term there. You had to dock somewhere else to get more bullets and sell your crap. No way in hell could you go raid elsewhere without stopping somewhere else, especially a TW with more limited space.

All of that aside, what is the purpose of auto-reg? The comment about trade runs effecting the economy is a joke, because the profits from trade are a joke. 10 mins of GSP > 10 hours of trade runs.

SD needs to be corrected, so that can't be the reason either as it is unrelated.

Doing a pro/con I get:

Pro: none

Cons: lvl 7 summon is crippled

Thoughts? Whether it was/wasn't in live should be secondary to "how will this make the game better".

The argument about shortcutting is also crap, wormhole destroys lvl 7 summon if that's the concern. WH to swoop > xipe > bbw is 3 mins, almost the same as QAR registration. Every game has travel shortcuts that are earned.

This is a lot of what I remember. People who got RTB from a JD in the Fishbowl and ended up in Antares which DID happen and is memorable due to the amount of cussing and gripping that person did trying to get to F7 for the lotto of loot.

Also hunting in Antares and getting RTB to Paren or F7 when done. It was typical especially for someone like me who played a PS (very little cargo and lots of devices / ammo to stuff in it) for us to hunt in Antares and dock to vault loot then go out hunt more and once vault AND cargo were full to get a JD to RTB or a JE to WH. My means was a JD as I had a good friend of mine who played a maxed JD that I hunted with on a daily basis. We usually didn't have a JE with us as this was no one's real combat character and there was no need with the JD RTB and my PS with max JS.

[fuulishone]

@Bowling

What you say is true, except that the mechanic of regging somewhere and then suiciding to shorten the return time is available to anyone that wanted to do so, so thus it was balanced. Engines and warp and what not make no difference. You're only shortening one leg of the trip and really, what's the point of slowing everyone down other than to make a grind game?

Again, if the issue was shortcutting trade runs, there's ways to deal with that that doesn't require auto-registration, and I've posted those before several times already. At the end of the day I don't care all that much, but I do feel this is one of those "could've been approached differently" type of things.

*shrugs*

[Klyde]

Live was a very very long time ago, read my sig to know why I said it.

I can still remember some of those "oh crap!" moments from not remembering to reg close to the event I was headed to, and RTB just sent me halfway across the galaxy.

[Kyp [LDEV]]

All of that aside, what is the purpose of auto-reg? The comment about trade runs effecting the economy is a joke, because the profits from trade are a joke. 10 mins of GSP > 10 hours of trade runs.

SD needs to be corrected, so that can't be the reason either as it is unrelated.

Thoughts? Whether it was/wasn't in live should be secondary to "how will this make the game better".

I felt the need to address these two statements, Floss.

1) Trade Runs won't always be this way, albeit they may for now. SD we've heard mixed reports on how it worked and have little hard documentation on that one skill.

2) Actually the question is "How does this make the game more fun?" at least this is what I've been told whilst pursuing my degree but with that in mind, what was in live is the initial state, thus the one we restore before we look at ways to make it better and all documentation points towards Auto-registration being the way it worked, despite what people remember. Human memory can be a very foggy thing indeed. There are also screenshots showing players docking and seeing messages like "CONTROL: Registration Accepted" in the system window. If proof can be provided otherwise we certainly encourage players to come forth with it, but what we have says otherwise.

[Azasha]

Ok here goes....

2 screenshots for you 1 to show a registration the other that shows an obvious lack of autoreg due to the sequence in which messages were displayed. There are only 2 explanations for this autoreg was not active in Live and I registered at the station before docking or autoreg was optional.

Screen Shot with registration:

Attached File (wasn't uploaded on the web already) of docking without registration. Please notice that on the first screen shot Landing Clearance was Granted prior to registration so in this shot there should be registration after Landing Clearance if auto registration was not optional.:

[Floss]

That's some nasty XP debt

/approves of these screenshots

[irrelevant]

2 screenshots for you 1 to show a registration the other that shows an obvious lack of autoreg due to the sequence in which messages were displayed. There are only 2 explanations for this autoreg was not active in Live and I registered at the station before docking or autoreg was optional.

Sure, you could have registered while docking animation was playing, I used to do that all the time cuz the animation was boring (clicky clicky)

As far as I remember , you never got the registration message while docking (but DID autoreg) Of course, no SNs to show this.

[Azasha]

That's some nasty XP debt

/approves of these screenshots

That was after a Fishbowl raid For those who say "the FB is too hard now". That was with 6 full groups 36 people taking it down.

(Edit) I wasn't the person with the highest debt either. Debt numbers like that were typical of PS, JE, and TT in the Fishbowl.

[Floss]

Any chance you have an old text log file? I don't think I even have the hard drive I used to play on, but a log file would quickly sort out this debate as that would be stamped in it.

[Azasha]

I might I thought I saved all the data and logs but I haven't been able to find them. However, mind you I haven't looked that hard. They'd be on my backup drive which I'll admit is a total mess not organized in any fashion and 500 gigs of "stuff" from the past 10 years....

[Sphinxi]

I do from 2003:

Log Started at: Wed Aug 13 22:40:15 2003

**(5):22:40:15 Welcome to InfinitiCorp's Somerled Station, serving the galaxy's commercial interests since 2219!

(19):22:40:16 SYSTEM: All players may see you on their Friends List.

(5):22:40:30 Docking link disengaged... InfinitiCorp thanks you for your patronage!

(0):22:40:38 COMPUTER: We have entered New Edinburgh Sector (Tau Ceti System).

(0):22:40:44 COMPUTER: Your warp engine glows.

(0):22:40:44 COMPUTER: InfinitiCorp DV-WS-X2 "Roadrunner" Mk. III activated.

(0):22:42: 7 COMPUTER: Warp target reached.

(0):22:42:18 COMPUTER: We have entered Carpenter Sector (Beta Hydri System).

(0):22:43:33 COMPUTER: Warp target reached.

(0):22:43:48 COMPUTER: We have entered Glenn Sector (Beta Hydri System).

(0):22:44:43 COMPUTER: Warp target reached.

(5):22:45: 5 DOCKING CONTROL: Landing clearance granted.

(5):22:45: 5 DOCKING CONTROL: Registration accepted.

(5):22:45:10 The Glenn Commission welcomes you to Friendship 7 - luxury resort and casino. Your enjoyment is our pleasure!

(0):22:45:44 COMPUTER: Trade complete.

(0):22:45:58 COMPUTER: Trade complete.

(0):22:46:21 COMPUTER: Trade complete.

(0):22:46:35 COMPUTER: Trade complete.

(0):22:46:54 COMPUTER: Trade complete.

(0):22:47: 7 COMPUTER: Trade complete.

(0):22:47:25 COMPUTER: Trade complete.

(0):22:47:45 COMPUTER: Trade complete.

(2):22:47:46 Merchant Prince Mateitm: anyone can transfer me some L9 ammo to my PW?

(2):22:48:22 Merchant Prince Vandergriff: I can help you when I finish making an engine

(0):22:48:24 COMPUTER: Sorting Vault by name

(0):22:48:25 COMPUTER: Sorting Vault by value

(2):22:48:35 Merchant Prince Mateitm: k

(19):22:49:53 SYSTEM: Logging off in 2 seconds.

(19):22:49:53 SYSTEM: 1 second to logoff.

Log Started at: Thu Aug 28 20:38:45 2003

**(19):20:38:45 SYSTEM: No default destination available for chat.

**(5):20:38:50 The Glenn Commission welcomes you to Friendship 7 - luxury resort and casino. Your enjoyment is our pleasure!

(8):20:38:50 Guild MOTD : Hello Everyone! Please encourage any ingame friends to put in an application. We need TE's with faction to start doing Red Base again - Several parts of the website will be going down for updates tomrrow around 11am-3pm CET (4am CDT-8am CDT).

(19):20:38:51 SYSTEM: Defaulting chat channel to Guild.

(19):20:38:51 SYSTEM: All players may see you on their Friends List.

(5):20:40:35 Enjoyed your stay? Don't forget to visit the Glenn Science Exhibit and Banzai Raceway, both conveniently located along the Friendship Nav Highway.

(0):20:40:45 COMPUTER: We have entered Glenn Sector (Beta Hydri System).

(7):20:41:24 Scaracen Raceway Announcer: Four minutes 'til race time!

(0):20:41:47 COMPUTER: Warp target reached.

(0):20:42: 3 COMPUTER: We have entered Carpenter Sector (Beta Hydri System).

(0):20:42:21 COMPUTER: Bikkie makes Weeks's engine glow.

(0):20:44:12 COMPUTER: Warp target reached.

(5):20:44:12 DOCKING CONTROL: Landing clearance granted.

(5):20:44:13 DOCKING CONTROL: Your registration has been confirmed with InfinitiCorp Central Security and Emergency Rescue Services.

(5):20:44:20 Welcome to InfinitiCorp's Orsini Mining Platform - Refining Dreams Every Day!

(0):20:45: 9 COMPUTER: You have manufactured superior ammunition.

(0):20:45:13 COMPUTER: You have manufactured superior ammunition.

(0):20:46:36 COMPUTER: You have manufactured superior ammunition.

(0):20:47:42 COMPUTER: Sorting Vault by name

(0):20:47:43 COMPUTER: Sorting Vault by value

(0):20:48:39 COMPUTER: 3 Dark Matter Infused Catalyst of 3 eligible for trade experience.

(0):20:48:43 COMPUTER: 10 EarthCorps Intel:"Operation Protect and Intercept" of 10 eligible for trade experience.

(0):20:48:52 COMPUTER: Nova Emerald Foramen eligible for trade experience.

(0):20:49: 5 COMPUTER: 4 Cloud Rider Heart of 4 eligible for trade experience.

(0):20:49:16 COMPUTER: Sorting Vault by category

(0):20:49:19 COMPUTER: Sorting Vault by name

(0):20:49:19 COMPUTER: Sorting Vault by value

(0):20:49:28 COMPUTER: Sorting Cargo by name

(0):20:49:30 COMPUTER: Sorting Cargo by value

(17):20:54: 5 COMPUTER: Unable to create Ten-Gu Plasma Spines. Missing required component(s).

(2):20:57: 6 Merchant Prince Cia: can anytone help me X-fer 3 items to my alt?

(2):20:57:19 Proconsul Scrap: sure cia

(2):20:57:27 Merchant Prince Cia: lol hey scrap

(2):20:57:32 Proconsul Scrap: hey

(2):20:57:47 Merchant Prince Cia: brb

(2):20:57:51 Proconsul Scrap: k

(2):20:58:22 Agent Atf: i a sooo cute

(2):20:58:27 Proconsul Scrap: lol

(8):20:58:53 [guild] Justjoe: evening all

(8):20:58:59 [guild] Avenicus: hia joe

(8):20:59:11 [guild] Sphinxi: Hi JJ

(8):20:59:33 [guild] Justjoe: what's going on?

(8):20:59:55 [guild] Avenicus: zeo is looking for a plauge's bite and I'm playing on primus

(8):21: 0: 4 [guild] Avenicus: I think shinxi is mining

(8):21: 0:20 [guild] Sphinxi: getting ammo parts for sphinxi

(8):21: 0:37 [guild] Justjoe: cool... think i'm going to try searching for some more l6 fields..

[Azasha]

I'll see what I can dig up log file wise..... I'm starting to think this is going to be a never ending debate as no one is going to remember that at this exact date and time they didn't just reg or that it wasn't optional somehow which I'm beginning to think it was.

[mistergreen]

The log clearly shows leaving a station, going to another and being registered upon docking. Not once, but two different times and at different stations.

[Azasha]

Yes it does and there are any number of reasons for that. However there is a screen shot up there clearly showing the Landing Clearance message and then docking without registration. I will try to find logs but lord knows how long that would take to go through years of ENB logs *wince*. It may or may not happen simply put. At least not for 1 trivial little thing like auto-registration. I may do it if there are other things the project Team needs in there.

So far as I see it there are 3 possibilities:

1. Auto-registration was in Live at some point and was not in Live at some point. (Added / Removed at points)

2. Auto-registration was optional via a slash command like /autoreg (on/off) (probably the most likely fact)

I am sure there were more slash commands at the end of Live than were even listed on the website at the end of Live. I searched the archive site and there are patch messages pointing towards an /overflow inventory slash command yet it is not listed anywhere on the website under the commands link and it is not listed in game. EA was the masters of documentation suckery when it came to things they changed.

[StarSeekerVDS]

Yes they were... but some folks are trying hard to beat them at that.