Gunney Posted September 4, 2017 Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 Bunch of people who want to talk about BS points that further their wants, not the group as a whole Not one person or group is owed anything No one person or group has a right to anything Raids are community events, anyone who solo's or a small group that multiboxes is/are a bunch of asshats Players Advocate = No position in the matter except as an individual player Rotation is dead and gone If trigger is up, announce it in General chat and form up to take it down Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunney Posted September 4, 2017 Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 On 9/2/2017 at 4:58 PM, Moulinneuf said: PRS is being worked on and is still in development , I asked for the Advocate to run them, but was denied One DGM seem to being doing them this days , again when time off work and real life event permiting Who broke the PRS ???? BL use to run it all the time Woody Had the ability to run it also as I recall Havent seen it up in quite awhile Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moulinneuf Posted September 4, 2017 Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 15 minutes ago, Gunney said: Players Advocate = No position in the matter except as an individual player Rotation is dead and gone If trigger is up, announce it in General chat and form up to take it down Player ( singular ) Advocate as these position and task actually : 1) Neutral and moderator in Guild rotation discussion. 2) Arbiter of who's in the guild rotation based on usage and membership and guild wishes ( epic for example don't want a spot ) , not player feeling/opinions 3) Developper , updater, informer, requester and suggester. . 4) Informing all the player by public directed update 5) Help drafting the server wide rule as to be clear and understood and agreed by all ------------------------------------- Guild Rotation still exist, for now. As no final replacement as been agreed to , server wide , so far. Wasted Trigger rule seem to have been applying for a month now. No final agreement on that yet some still have to get back to me on it It state you have to ask the guild who's guild rotation trigger it is in chat General / new player / market who's guild is it's turn if the triger as been up for 12 hour and see that no one , from said guild is camping it Don't give m the we might decide to do it eventually excuse and no one is there online to reply to chat message. Trigger are a privilege not a right. You also have to make it open to ALL by general invite with wasted trigger . Others need an attiitude check up with higher autority then me, mindles,threat on teamspeak, dont work on me at all. Mistake in communication on my part is easy to solve , your guild not doing triggers , not answering communication and even your own player telling me you dont do them du to internal problem and lack of interest is not cutting it. *** You don't say anything = your in agreement. *** ----------------- My position as a player is I dont give a hoot !! I am in Builder Inc we have had a rotation spot Most raid I am not there when they do it or unavailable to attend and even when there I am usually working on leveling lower player or my lower toons , when I dont fall asleep when one happen. Guild rotation was / is intended to stage off FFA chaos and an all out triger war. ---------------- If we need a Big guild / Public representatvieSSS on temspeak/forum meeting to iron out final details we shall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunney Posted September 4, 2017 Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 12 minutes ago, Moulinneuf said: Player ( singular ) Advocate as these position and task actually Advocate is Player - Dev buffer nothing more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moulinneuf Posted September 4, 2017 Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, Gunney said: BL use to run it all the time Woody Had the ability to run it also as I recall Havent seen it up in quite awhile BL as been Vacationing /out of commission / MIA for a while now ( Since I took on the Player Advocate post i Have not seen him once ) Woody as run a few lately ,work , personnal time , health ( Superhuman dev also get sick ) permiting He said wednesdays or thursday for next one depends on work is last I heard Might be other dev but it's their choice. It's still in development / working out how it work / worked on Update Redkite can do PRS / EVENT as well and decided to show up in game with offer to start one just now. Edited September 4, 2017 by Moulinneuf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moulinneuf Posted September 4, 2017 Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 3 minutes ago, Gunney said: Advocate is Player - Dev buffer nothing more No , I told you what it was now , in this case. DEV / GM have full control , they don't neeed a buffer with the player or the game. They actually interract directly with them in a majortiy of cases. I have not deleted any post in the past ( don't have delete access or control outside the advoctae forum ) , i have hidden unrelated comment under Polls only , Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wkwells Posted September 4, 2017 Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 Skully is not EPIC leader Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackmercenary Posted September 5, 2017 Report Share Posted September 5, 2017 The role of the advocate is to represent the playerbase's interests before the Devs. Nothing more. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moulinneuf Posted September 5, 2017 Report Share Posted September 5, 2017 8 minutes ago, Blackmercenary said: The role of the advocate is to represent the playerbase's interests before the Devs. Nothing more. I already answered that , quite clearly. Funny, that : 1 single player and really, you are , nothing more is trying to re / define what behing a Player Advocate his when you see only 10% of what they / I do. There are those who are defined by a position and other who redefine the position I guess I am the latter. To be blunt and precise , so that you get the magnitude here , more then 30 other playe and many guild leadersr have asked me to look into the Raid Trigger problem and fix it. The Dev said it's a player problem , deal with it or leave it alone we don't care ( wich is not really true ) Previous Advocate have told me this proably would be the biggest ssue as it was there's too. You know who get to decide what the Player Advocate try and get fixed ? Only one person : The player advocate. You know who define the Player advocate role : The player Advocate , Until a Dev or or GM or all of them kick him where it hurts and the player advocate give up. Sorry if that don't meet your and other player approval and false idea of what the role of the player advocate is. You want to dscuss my role on this , pop up on teamspeak in the advocate channel with your guild leader and tell him you think the raid trigger situation is fine the way it currently is.. Just give me a heads up to let me make a jumbo bowl of popcorn first. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodstock HGM [HGM] Posted September 5, 2017 Report Share Posted September 5, 2017 Currently my days off are Thursdays and Fridays, Pacific time zone (California). i can and will open up the PRS if there is interest and enough players/avatars to support the chosen raid, there is a 4 Million minimum entry fee to the PRS and the gate will be closed during the raid anyother questions see me in game or leave me a message, 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunney Posted September 5, 2017 Report Share Posted September 5, 2017 11 hours ago, Moulinneuf said: You know who get to decide what the Player Advocate try and get fixed ? Only one person : The player advocate. You know who define the Player advocate role : The player Advocate Anyone else uneasy with those two statements? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackmercenary Posted September 5, 2017 Report Share Posted September 5, 2017 16 hours ago, Moulinneuf said: I already answered that , quite clearly. Funny, that : 1 single player and really, you are , nothing more is trying to re / define what behing a Player Advocate his when you see only 10% of what they / I do. There are those who are defined by a position and other who redefine the position I guess I am the latter. To be blunt and precise , so that you get the magnitude here , more then 30 other playe and many guild leadersr have asked me to look into the Raid Trigger problem and fix it. The Dev said it's a player problem , deal with it or leave it alone we don't care ( wich is not really true ) Previous Advocate have told me this proably would be the biggest ssue as it was there's too. You know who get to decide what the Player Advocate try and get fixed ? Only one person : The player advocate. You know who define the Player advocate role : The player Advocate , Until a Dev or or GM or all of them kick him where it hurts and the player advocate give up. Sorry if that don't meet your and other player approval and false idea of what the role of the player advocate is. You want to dscuss my role on this , pop up on teamspeak in the advocate channel with your guild leader and tell him you think the raid trigger situation is fine the way it currently is.. Just give me a heads up to let me make a jumbo bowl of popcorn first. Honestly, I have no problem with you attempting to help out in the position and obviously filling more roles. But, you have no authority to decide what the terms of the raid rotation are. In your posts, you have stated that the raid rotation will remain until it's figured out. You don't have that power. The power belongs to the playerbase who you represent, the people who nominated you, and only if they agree on those terms. But keeping the raid rotation to appease a minority (the big 3) based on your own self perceived authority is ridiculous, especially when it alienates the majority of public players. I have seen so many raid triggers wasted and the most coveted hoarded by only 2-5 people. Having the playerbase challenge the raid rotation will cause the guild leaders of the "big three" to wake up and actually start negotiating. You can't try to slowly move into something more favorable for the public because the topic will just die and the playerbase will go another year without a proper resolution. It's time to put the big 3 on the hot seat, because they don't have the numbers to justify their exclusivity anymore. From the advocate standpoint, the best thing that you could do is convince the DEV's that the problem is indeed their problem and not a player one. Other games have instanced dungeons for a reason, because timed encounters are exclusive by nature. The DEV's said they would think about implementing a player initiated PRS in one of the meeting notes that you provided. One where a player could summon the raid themselves. What is the status of that? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaka Posted September 5, 2017 Report Share Posted September 5, 2017 The raid rotation needs to end. This game is meant to be fun for all. Why should a select group of elite or multi-boxers have rights to a raid. Besides why cant we all just raid together? The game is more alive and spontaneous when you can join at any time and have a shot at ANY raid. It is a joke that a few guild leaders can hold a monopoly on features of the game. This is beyond madness. BTW is has been stated that GM's and DEV's will never support a raid rotation, only look the other way if everyone agrees. clearly not everyone agrees. "The time for honoring yourself will soon be at an end." The only reasonable discussion would be to make an attempt to spread out the raiding times when possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moulinneuf Posted September 6, 2017 Report Share Posted September 6, 2017 (edited) Information and missing details : There is 100 recorded player that show up on a daily basis divide by 3 = 33 Players Goes higher on weekend. The big 5 ( possibly big 6 ) ( because the big 3 is no longer accurate and this as been the case for a long time and many months ) make up 50% of those 33 when they show up in group based on their time period . I was told by some marked player that are in one big guild that they no longer do any of their raid. ( it was proven false and it's not BI ) There is 2 Big guild doing Public raid , one said they don't want a spot , the other requested a spot. Due to ongoing discussion and new thing coming out, the discussion did not happen They still do the Raid trigger for Public in an Open to all. Player advcoate take : 1 big guid is fine 2 holding the public spot is not , even more so when the second one seem to be having the most guild player online and playing these days. BI seem to be on a vacation / player mia / player quitting for the bigger guild / and mad player who can't join the raid . / player who lead the raid is no longer interested and no one taking their spot type of phase a ) They still do their raid by inviting public , wich as failled to work this past month on some occasion b ) They have an undesrtanding with public that if BI don't the public can take it after a while wich they do. Public as currently no single 1 representative or many 2+ representative. Yu can't be in a guild and be a public representative. I don't know where this lies and fantasy that the big 3 are elite came from , most of the player and guild leader tend to be nice and are open to new rectruit , the big 5-6 now are still the same. Il also don't know where you get that multiboxer can take on the raid trigger on themself most raid trigger require 2 group of people du to the intensity of the raid Also the dev watch that no bozo multiboxer does that The buildable raid trigers are not at the same level and not the same thing. PRS is somewhat oeprationnal with a DEV / GM , that is if one decide to show up and do it and nothing go bad. No idea on how far along and where it is on the PRS activated by player system , probably being worked on and in the far future Will ask on next week-end for an update finnaly you guy are Idiot if you compare a funded fully owned copyrigthed game by a developper company to this EMU who is 15-16 year od code. who the dev // GM have no access to the player side soure code who is mostly worked on by free contributor and as zero budget or full time worker on it. The raid rotation stand not because of the player advocate but because their are no replacement solution or real , mature , conserted and approved by all solution to replace it. Free For All and trigger war is never a solution and never will be, Communication is not achieved and it's not by my lack of trying. I tought the PRS system would solve the majority of the problem , obviously it does not. I offered to run it , was denied , as I am not a dev and seing last PRS report I can understand why. Edited September 6, 2017 by Moulinneuf 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaka Posted September 6, 2017 Report Share Posted September 6, 2017 Please explain to me the reason for a raid rotation at this time and also what are the negative results of not having a raid rotation. Make it short and simple please, not a long winded novel with plot twists. I can say the positive results are the server would be a better place for ALL, including the select few still trying to hold onto their toys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moulinneuf Posted September 6, 2017 Report Share Posted September 6, 2017 (edited) 50 minutes ago, shaka said: Please explain to me the reason for a raid rotation at this time and also what are the negative results of not having a raid rotation. Make it short and simple please, not a long winded novel with plot twists. I can say the positive results are the server would be a better place for ALL, including the select few still trying to hold onto their toys. I certainly won't ,, The current and accurate detail I have, was given to all of you. Simply put I work for the entire player base. Because FFA worked so well in the past ... Where is your data ? From what experience ? Edited September 6, 2017 by Moulinneuf 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaka Posted September 6, 2017 Report Share Posted September 6, 2017 I apologize as it appears that I have offended you. That was not my intention nor was my post entirely directed at you, this is after all a community. My question was directed at the current status of the server, not the past. It was a simple question and if someone can honestly state the benefits of a rotation and lack thereof, this is where clarity happens. Making judgments at my experience, age or credibility may keep OJ out of jail but it won't win you fans or respect. My intentions for simple clarity of this subject IS out of respect to others. A good experiment might be temporarily eliminating the rotation to see its effects. I'm guessing that if everyone is respectful it would be a success for all. Once again if anyone can simply explain why a rotation is needed for the CURRENT state of the server I would appreciate it and so would many others. BTW a worse case FFA raid system would still be better IMO than a boring know your place rotation. The best games emulate life and as we know the world doesn't agree on order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaka Posted September 6, 2017 Report Share Posted September 6, 2017 BTW why edit this out? I certainly won't ,, The current and accurate detail I have, was given to all of you. Simply put I work for the entire player base. I suspect you lack the mental capacity , respect of others and the empathy to care about all othe players. That's me being extremely polite in your case. Because FFA worked so well in the past ... Where is your data ? From what experience ? How old are you ? Stand by what you say... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moulinneuf Posted September 6, 2017 Report Share Posted September 6, 2017 (edited) - Dev asked me to edit it out ( RedKite ) - I agreed , so i did. - I stand by my work and word of values , not by the insults. - Player Advocate position is one of respectability , only for that i will remove things perceived as too harsh or insulting by those who i respect as to continue the good work and respect for the position and those who did hold it before me and those who will after me.. Edited September 6, 2017 by Moulinneuf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaka Posted September 6, 2017 Report Share Posted September 6, 2017 I appreciate your response. Sorry for making it personal. Its shows in your work you are trying to help. We all say things in spite that we regret. -Aloha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackmercenary Posted September 6, 2017 Report Share Posted September 6, 2017 (edited) 27 minutes ago, Moulinneuf said: - Dev asked me to edit it out ( RedKite ) - I agreed , so i did. - I stand by my work and word of values , not by the insults. - Player Advocate position is one of respectability , only for that i will remove things perceived as too harsh or insulting by those who i respect. A DEV shouldn't have to ask you to edit insults out of your own posts. They shouldn't be there, especially from someone representing the player base. You should try to remain neutral in the discussion. But, it seems all to common a theme when someone offers a counter viewpoint. 10 hours ago, Moulinneuf said: Il also don't know where you get that multiboxer can take on the raid trigger on themself most raid trigger require 2 group of people du to the intensity of the raid Also the dev watch that no bozo multiboxer does that Ravina/Hawat/myself used to take down all of the triggers in the game with just 6 toons with minimal deaths. The controller was the easiest. 10 hours ago, Moulinneuf said: PRS is somewhat oeprationnal with a DEV / GM , that is if one decide to show up and do it and nothing go bad. No idea on how far along and where it is on the PRS activated by player system , probably being worked on and in the far future Will ask on next week-end for an update I tought the PRS system would solve the majority of the problem , obviously it does not. I offered to run it , was denied , as I am not a dev and seing last PRS report I can understand why. Just to note, the PRS doesn't need to be fancy. The DEV spawned ones have a lot of extra miscellaneous mobs. If the DEVs wanted to put an NPC next to the spawn location of the current raid which required the players to submit certain resources/money to spawn the boss, that would be the simplest solution on paper. You wouldn't have to change the raid location or the mobs AI. 10 hours ago, Moulinneuf said: The big 5 ( possibly big 6 ) ( because the big 3 is no longer accurate and this as been the case for a long time and many months ) make up 50% of those 33 when they show up in group based on their time period . So if we went with this math, 50% of the 33 players is made up by the "big 6". So that comes to 16.5 players belong to big guilds, if you divide that by 6, than that would leave you with 2.75 players per big guild. So we need a raid rotation for 2.75 players in the big guilds? Instead of 16.5 players working together with other half of the equation (16.5 public)? Edited September 6, 2017 by Blackmercenary 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackmercenary Posted September 6, 2017 Report Share Posted September 6, 2017 2 hours ago, shaka said: Please explain to me the reason for a raid rotation at this time and also what are the negative results of not having a raid rotation. I can say the positive results are the server would be a better place for ALL, including the select few still trying to hold onto their toys. We need to honestly answer this question. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moulinneuf Posted September 6, 2017 Report Share Posted September 6, 2017 (edited) 57 minutes ago, Blackmercenary said: A DEV shouldn't have to ask you to edit insults out of your own posts. They shouldn't be there, especially from someone representing the player base. You should try to remain neutral in the discussion. But, it seems all to common a theme when someone offers a counter viewpoint. - Agree to disagree, DEV can ask me to edit out any stuff they deem innapropriate or don't want me to share att this time or that they disagee with - That's why they where removed. - I am always neutral in my positiion - Agree to disagree. You offer personnal opinion , rarely counter view point Quote Ravina/Hawat/myself used to take down all of the triggers in the game with just 6 toons with minimal deaths. The controller was the easiest. - Used to is the operative word. - I don't call 6 toons with all the highest gear by some of the most brillant raider a normal case and I would dispute your only 6 toon in all cases. - You are not suppose to multi-box / multi-toon the raid trigger and keep it to your guild only if you don't have the player to do it - You might want to work on recruiting new player to your guild who want and are able to participate in raids. Quote Just to note, the PRS doesn't need to be fancy. The DEV spawned ones have a lot of extra miscellaneous mobs. If the DEVs wanted to put an NPC next to the spawn location of the current raid which required the players to submit certain resources/money to spawn the boss, that would be the simplest solution on paper. You wouldn't have to change the raid location or the mobs AI. - You are talking about a buildable / activation trigger for existing raid it's something different to the PRS system. ( asked and denied last i asked the DEV) Quote So if we went with this math, 50% of the 33 players is made up by the "big 6". So that comes to 16.5 players belong to big guilds, if you divide that by 6, than that would leave you with 2.75 players per big guild. So we need a raid rotation for 2.75 players in the big guilds? Instead of 16.5 players working together with other half of the equation (16.5 public)? - Server population is not math - Not all 6 guild are on the same time zone - You can try and make math say what you as a player want to have/achieve , it's another thing completly when humans are the math in question. -Not all player are level and raid ready - Not all player even if level and raid ready want to do them. - If it was simple the raid rotation would not exist , people would be nice to each others - if it was easy to make change people would do them easily , it's one of the most diffcult thing for human to do - If communication was not so broken down , we would have everyone show up and discuss solution and new change - finally if you had respected the rules , recruited new players to your guild then your 2 accomplice being on a break would not make you want to do all the raid as public. Edited September 6, 2017 by Moulinneuf 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaka Posted September 6, 2017 Report Share Posted September 6, 2017 We have digressed. Please Blackmercenary do not respond to Moulinneuf. Lets try to keep it simple; Why does there need to be a raid rotation under the current status of the server? also What would be the harm in temporarily eliminating it as a test? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moulinneuf Posted September 6, 2017 Report Share Posted September 6, 2017 I agree, you have disgressed. Can a DEV or GM please close this thread. , Thank you. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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