Jump to content
AlanEnB

Rotation raid triggers killed

Recommended Posts

Kyp [LDEV]    239
5 hours ago, flamingpanda said:

People ought to actually fly around more watch raids, I know the numbers are low , But if people actually flew around the galaxy cooper antares, The ENTIRE galaxy the only people you would find would be at gates, The problem is much greater then less then 100 people logging in , most of which being boxers, Its more a huge % of them actually arent doing anything 

 

Because at the low levels , Its quite difficult to get anything team wise happening , impossible to achieve consistently

 

And at the higher levels there are tiny groups of players making agreements that monopolise content 75% of the raid triggers for a tiny group of the same players....

 

It's really not hard to conclude why its so quiet in the emu , And the few logged in are usually at a base or gate camping , The content their is , They are not allowed to use....most of the time

 

What did you expect to happen? Really?

 

So, given your opinion, I presume you think you can do better?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sector001    1

Flamingpanda you don't have to be apart of this player agreement rotation.  Kyp stated earlier that no player owns the rights to content.  I've only been playing this emulator for under a month so maybe there's more to this then submitting to a few multiboxers who have an agreement but from what I've learned the public rotation had to be forced upon the big 3 multiboxers.  So get some buddies together and go have fun.  The developers just like in live allow the player base to make its own rules as long as it doesn't cross the lines of their code of conduct. 

Edited by Sector001
  • Upvote 1
  • Downvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Prrekoorb    104

I don't like feeding troll's so i aint going to bother replying :)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

PS, one thing i will say is ALL but one raid can currently be done by a single player multi-boxing (i know a few players that can do this ) so take away the rotation and see how often everyone else gets a chance at owning raid gear. Be careful what you wish for Mr Panda,i for one would certainly would not like a free for all system where triggers were camped and non accessible to the majority.

Edited by Prrekoorb

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sector001    1
59 minutes ago, Prrekoorb said:

I don't like feeding troll's so i aint going to bother replying :)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

PS, one thing i will say is ALL but one raid can currently be done by a single player multi-boxing (i know a few players that can do this ) so take away the rotation and see how often everyone else gets a chance at owning raid gear. Be careful what you wish for Mr Panda,i for one would certainly would not like a free for all system where triggers were camped and non accessible to the majority.

A few?  These past few weeks I've seen just 4 players fill 3 groups on their own but I agree it takes more then just having the ability to run multiple toons to complete raids.  I rarely seen anyone without multiboxing at least 2 toons.  Don't get me wrong I like multiboxing and can manage 6 toons pretty easily and I plan to push that to 12 in the long run thanks to some software tips I was given by a GM.  I think a few people can easily handle any raid currently in the game and it's a good thing.  Allows any small group of players to handle any encounter without worrying about low population.

Edited by Sector001

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Prrekoorb    104

You missed my point , a small group of 2 or 3 or even a single multi-boxer could camp triggers and 'own' them . at least with a rotation in place EVERYONE gets a fair shot at participating in a raid and rolling for the loot . 

Edited by Prrekoorb

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sector001    1

My mistake then Prrekoorb.  I could be talking out of my ass but from the last few weeks and attending the Troller, RD Base and GoBB it just seemed besides having jumpstarts ready for GoBB they didn't seem that difficult but like I said I've only been active for just over 3 weeks and so far I haven't seen any drama or issues between players in TS or in game chat.  In fact everyone has been very helpful to me and it's gotten to a point I'm feeling guilty about it.  I have been invited to raids even not having the ability to help much and even telling these different raid leaders this they encouraged me to join and even roll on loot I couldn't use yet.  Sorry got off track there but from my personal experience I think if Panda just asked nicely I think he could be invited to many raids.

Edited by Sector001

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Prrekoorb    104
1 minute ago, Sector001 said:

My mistake then Prrekoorb.  I could be talking out of my ass but from the last few weeks and attending the Troller, RD Base and GoBB it just seemed besides having jumpstarts ready for GoBB they didn't seem that difficult but like I said I've only been active for just over 3 weeks and so far I haven't seen any drama or issues between players in TS or in game chat.  In fact everyone has been very helpful to me and it's gotten to a point I'm feeling guilty about it.  I have been invited to raids even not having the ability to help much and even telling these different raid leaders this they encouraged me to join and even roll on loot I couldn't use yet.  Sorry got off track there but from my personal experience I think if Panda just asked nicely I think he could invited to many raids.

 

 

I think you have just about summed it up perfectly :)

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
PESTILENNCE    6

Here's my two cents worth, I agree with Panda on a few points he made and the rotation killing the game is one of them, I know of several players that no longer play anymore due

to the strangle hold of the rotation and another about the big 3 not being anything like the largest 3 active guilds anymore and their slot in the rotation is now unfair and the very least should be reviewed and given up for another guild that can prove it's a larger guild with more active players but panda is right it won't happen because they are greedy and don't want to give up something they don't deserve anymore.

I find myself having breaks from the game because I get so fed up with raids being done at 01am my time even though the triggers been floating around for all day and why is it taking so long for it to be killed? it's not down to the number of players logged in but the rotation lock.

Again Panda is right in saying no other game would allow the rotation and they all get on fine even EnB live worked without the rotation and to those that argue about the trigger being owned by the same people. Possibly but I take the view of the triggers are on random spawn timers with a spawning window so it might appear 11am my time or 23:00pm  making a fairer trigger that covers everyones timezones in the world. I really believe this was what the original developers wanted at it's conception, so unless said campers have no lives or jobs I don't think they could possibly catch all the spawns. If they started those kind of  childish games good luck with keeping your friends on here as I can see them dropping like flies fast and with a small community like this you will soon feel alone in the game and probably stop playing anyway because it stops being fun for you.

I like to consider myself friends with most people in the game regardless of the guild they are in and really can't see why we just can't all get along and when a raid can be done, advertise it in general and everyone gets invited just like the raids the devs do when they get the spare time ( They are very much appreciated by the way). That way everyone everywhere would get to raid at a more sociable hour and perhaps forge new frienships along the way.

 

 

Edited by PESTILENNCE
  • Upvote 1
  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sector001    1

I'm probably the minority in this but I miss the competition for triggers back in live.  Was the closest we ever got to PVP in live besides the arena.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
efialtis    61

What you are saying is all good and fine pestilennce ...in theory.

 

In last weeks Dev spawned troller, people showed up but you formed your own group comprised entirely of Damage inc (dont know if there were boxers there) and you were urging others to attend and form the second group so it could be done.

If you really wanted you could have organised and setup the groups differently but NO...you wanted to play with the people you know.

 

Its not an accusation i'm just making a point, even with the best intentions in mind, making new friends.

 

  • Upvote 1
  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
PESTILENNCE    6

You are very correct I did already have a full guild group but what you didn't see or know was that 2 had lvl 8 guns and 3 had not done any raiding before so they were being taught the tactics of the raid (it's better we take the xp debt and multiples jump starts without runiing the risk of them going into other groups and getting moaned at).

I might also like to point out that I made sure no person was not grouped and left to fight alone it took a lot of asking and a long time to get the party started because of that, rather than just load up a ton of alts and start without them.

There were a few new players raiding from within and outside my guild that night and I am sure they will all state that during and after guidance was given and what class the loot was good for etc so they could make well informed choices. In my book that is what is known as forging new friendships.

ps

You do have a good point about not just sticking with a guild group and I fully agree with it in theory but again if nobody wants to turn up for theses things it's hard to put it into practise and we run the risk of the devs not bothering anymore.

Edited by PESTILENNCE
  • Upvote 1
  • Downvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry, but the rotation system has to go and raid triggers revamped.

 

During live the developers purposely created the Fishbowl to combat the negative effects the rotation system and timed spawns were having on the game back when it was live, it was an awesome development and is something that is now industry norm in MMO's with the instance system.

 

I'll admit i was away for a really long time and came back a few months ago to give the game a try again, it was great playing again and the Emu team really have done an awesome job. I managed to level 2 chars to max level and started to raid with Damage Inc in the public raid slot, my observations:-

 

  • The raid rotation itself is not immediately obvious and is pretty much hidden away, I have no idea who even came up with it or if they are even playing still? New people coming to the game are genuinely confused when it get's brought up in the new player channel that they aren't allowed to do a raid as it isn't their turn.
  • Some raid triggers go untouched for entire weeks as guilds holding them can't get numbers to raid it (this happens a lot) or simply have no interest as they have all the loot they need from the raid.
  • When guilds who 'own' trigger are contacted, even after a trigger has been sitting an entire week, they refuse to let a public raid group use the trigger.
  • Many raids in the game can be completed with 1-2 groups, with multi-boxing, raids are sometimes being completed with just 2-3 people. There are YouTube videos of people soloing raids multi-boxing. Some of the 'Big 3' are literally now a handful of players multi-boxing.
  • Server numbers are in a serious decline, checking the numbers daily (taking into account multi-boxers), the CCU is around 20 odd people, the population will literally be depleted within a year at the current rate of decline.

 

Personally, I'm drained, due to time zones the 'public' raids usually happen around midnight for me, sometimes they start as late as 02:00. I'm happy to raid, but when you don't win the roll on loot and know you need to wait a month to be able to raid again  due the the rotation system, it is completely demoralizing and a prime candidate for causing people to get disheartened and leave. I'm not saying the rotation system is completely responsible for dropping server numbers, but it certainly isn't helping and is a common topic brought up on a daily basis in game.

 

I really think we need to revamp all raids to be activated like the Fishbowl/Gate Raid, I know it will take a bit of work to create mission lines to create triggers for Troller/Gobb/RD/DT, but removing the rotation will bring the server population together and help remove the contention in the community. With so few people playing now, everyone should be working together, not splitting into tiny little groups of people who dislike each other!

 

  • Upvote 2
  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
PESTILENNCE    6
On 07/04/2017 at 9:56 PM, Suricata79 said:

 

Personally, I'm drained, due to time zones the 'public' raids usually happen around midnight for me, sometimes they start as late as 02:00, but when you don't win the roll on loot and know you need to wait a month to be able to raid again  due the the rotation system, it is completely demoralizing and a prime candidate for causing people to get disheartened and leave.

 

You have pretty much hit the nail on the head and why I have stopped logging in to play the game anymore.

On a brighter note the wife is now happy that she is no longer a game widow and gets to see and speak to more than just the back of my head these days lmao :lol:

  • Upvote 1
  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I will probably get kicked from the guild for commenting on this thread, but I don't want this game to die and I really do believe that we need to come together.

 

I wasn't here when the big three had their first dispute.  But, I am in one of the big three now, and I can tell you honestly that the big three are no longer the "big three", in fact all guilds on this server are pretty dead at this point.  I have a few good friends in Damage Inc and the reason for their success in growth is due to the fact that they are on the public rotation, it allows them the perfect opportunity to recruit without constantly spamming the General/Market channel.

 

But still, the reality is that not many people are playing the game anymore.  This entire week, I have only been seeing numbers of 60ish people online and that's counting my 4 multi-boxed toons.  Suricata69 brought up the point that a lot of these raids triggers are not being touched, I can tell you that this is happening because a lot of raid leaders are burned out running the raids week in and week out.  I can also tell you that this is occurring because the loot from RD base and DT aren't that desirable for the amount of effort required or the faction loss. (Or the DCs)  I have talked about including the public on these rotation weeks in our guild chats, but when I have posted in public that we are hosting a raid...only a few people show up and they are multi-boxing.  So it really makes you question what is the point?  Where is the real interest in raiding from the public?

 

I don't think public has the numbers, nor do most of the guilds without multi-boxing at this point.   It usually takes the public 3 hours to get enough people for raids.  I don't know about you guys personally, but with a wife and kid, that only leaves a pissed off wife.  Also, nothing generates more interest/participation than a controller raid followed by the GoBB raid.  

 

The idea of guilds as they are now is silliness.  We all need to band together, drop the power trips, and bring back enjoyment to the game.  A trigger based system is the best idea, but I don't think the Devs can implement a trigger based system with the limited resources that they have in enough time to prevent diminishing numbers.  Not all triggers have to be difficult to obtain...perhaps you are allotted a few weekly tokens as a guild, which could replicate what other games have in instanced dungeons.

  

Without a good action plan though, there will be war amongst the guilds.  Which is what the rotation hoped to avoid and will definitely kill the game.   If guilds attempt to horde particular raids, it will only hurt the server more.  

 

We need to start a discussion about how we can all work together.  Perhaps the devs can make those weekly triggers.  If not, how can we help each other?

Edited by Blackmercenary
  • Upvote 3
  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hobbs    17
On 4/7/2017 at 1:56 PM, Suricata79 said:

 

  •  There are YouTube videos of people soloing raids multi-boxing.

I would very much like to see them :)  I have looked and can't seem to find them.

Links please? thank you :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Hobbs said:

I would very much like to see them :)  I have looked and can't seem to find them.

Links please? thank you :D

 

It's not all raids, and it certainly is not the norm, but it does happen. I would have to search for em as it's been a while since I last saw them, but to be honest that really is not relevant, as the point was that raids can be completed by 2-3 people (with soling occasionally happening, usually for Scooter and Mordana). We should not be rotating content exclusively for such small numbers of players.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Holyman    45

Haven't played in almost exactly 12 months... (Since moving from London out to the country and a *VERY* poor broadband connection...)

 

When I *WAS* playing (rather more actively!), I dipped my toes into the Raid Rotation Discussion as a somewhat objective arbiter... And even proposed a few alternatives to the existing Raid Rotation System.

 

It's a quiet day at the office today, and having exhausted my usual lunchtime websites, I thought I'd check in with Net-7 and see how things were going... And guess what? Discussions on the Raid Rotation still seem to be the order of the day..!

 

I wasn't intending to post... But you know how it goes... Old habits die hard... So here are my thoughts, based on what I've just read in this thread, and in the other current Raid Rotation thread:

 

It is the nature of human beings that once a competitive advantage has been gained, it is *VERY* rare for such an advantage to be voluntarily surrendered.

 

The members of the “Big 3” Guilds gained/earned a big advantage several years ago, with regards access to the top raids in the Game.

 

Whilst we might read the posts of representatives of those “Big 3”, and either silently or vocally criticise their insistence and justifications for maintaining their advantage… Are any of us honestly answering the question: would we behave any differently if *WE* held the advantage?

 

^^That isn’t meant to be a Magic Bullet to silence criticism… It’s just an observation to bear in mind, however we might honestly answer the question, whilst we participate in these discussions.

 

Another observation-based thought:

 

Kyp, the Grand Poobah, has stated in fairly unequivocal terms, his attitude towards the Raid Rotation System. In particular, he has emphasised that no player “owns” any particular raid.

 

Quite rightly – and I suspect, based on painful past experience – Kyp (and the rest of the Dev Team) keeps himself out of Player Politics.

 

Could he use his omnipotence to issue a ruling..? Undoubtedly.

 

Would such a ruling from On High bring a full and final end to players expressing dissatisfaction with access to raids: undoubtedly *NOT*.

 

On the issue of converting the time-spawned raids to triggered raids:

 

I think we all recognise this would be an ideal situation

I think we all understand that there would be… “x” amount of Development activity required to (re-)code, test, implement and balance this…

But do any of us think that if it was a simple and straightforward thing for the (volunteer) Development Team to carry out… They wouldn’t already have done it?

 

So… What popped into my head and compelled me to post, was this:

 

Discussions around the Raid Rotation Agreement tend to be fairly binary. Either the Raid Rotation System remains as it is; or it is scrapped altogether.

 

Actually, that wasn’t what occurred to me just now… That occurred to me a couple of years ago, when I was last contributing to the (on-going) Raid Rotation discussion… And I presented two or three alternatives that sat between the As Is-:-Nothing polarity. But I think I probably overthought those suggestions… And consequently over-designed them… (It happens…)

 

No, what just popped into my head was what I think is a cleaner, simpler alternative, based on what I was reading.

 

Assuming the Raid Rotation hasn’t changed in the year that I’ve been away, then it still consists of a four-weekly rolling schedule, with each of the “Big 3” getting dedicated access to a particular raid, for one week out of four. And the “Public” get the spare week.

 

Given the change (/decline) in Server and Guild populations since that Raid Rotation was originally devised, how about the following:

 

A two-week schedule.

 

Week 1: all time-spawned raids are open to the Public; with “Big 3” Guild members discouraged, but not necessarily forbidden from participation.

 

Week 2: all time-spawned raids are… “Prioritised” for the “Big 3”. And the “Big 3” can formulate a new Raid Rotation agreement amongst themselves, to figure out how they want to share the different raids amongst themselves, during their “On” week.

 

I use the term “Prioritised” advisedly, because as Kyp has emphasised, no player (or Guild) “owns” any Raid. But as with the existing Raid Rotation agreement, any accord will succeed or fail on consensus participation. Respect for the “prioritisation” of “Big 3” Guild Week, will be reciprocated by the “Big 3” respecting the “discouraging” of their participating (or at least, initiating) time-spawned Raids during Public Week.

 

Moving to a two-weekly turnaround in the Rotation means that “Public” players don’t have to wait a whole month, before getting another chance at the specific raid they are interested in.

 

Giving all “Big 3” Guilds dedicated access to all four (is it still four..?) time-spawned Raids, means that they can still operate their Inter-Guild Accords.

 

IIRC, the original purpose for the Raid Rotation Agreement was to resolve disputes *BETWEEN THE “Big 3”*… Not between any or all of the “Big 3”, and the Public.

 

Seems to me that if the “Big 3” as they are today, aggregate the advantages they each retain from “Back in the Day”, the “Public” will no longer feel quite as disadvantaged as they do now… And have done for some time.

 

And equally, the “Big 3” don’t completely lose the advantage that, whilst may not be quite as justifiable based on current Guild activity, reflects the contribution that those “Big 3” Guilds made in earlier days of the Emulator, and the contribution that members of those “Big 3” Guilds continue to make in terms of advice and assistance, to the current Player Base.

 

Maybe the specifics of my suggestion above might require further tweaking and calibration, or complete rejection in place of another alternative.

 

But given that this topic seems to have made no further progress towards a resolution than it had 12 months ago… It does seem to me that an alternative to either keeping things as they are, or abolishing the Rotation Agreement altogether, needs to be found.

 

It’s all about Compromise, isn’t it?

 

  • Upvote 1
  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×