Taallonn Posted February 14, 2010 Report Share Posted February 14, 2010 As it is now you can look at the list of lv 8 devices and Engines (to a lesser extent). Everyone can use them, there is nothing special about them. Devices are pretty much geared to be the best at this level and what I mean by that is that there are no drawbacks. What exactly is the allure of a lv 9 Engine? Is going 250 more warp @ lv 150 enough to put the points into that skill? I mean since lv 8 engines are the cap for many races/classes, and lv 9 don't have much more to offer, why Waste the points? Looking at sig, warp cost, overall warp....why pick a lv 9, when the best engine in game is lv 8? Devices. oh my devices, so many and yet so many that are useless. Lv 9 devices are a joke, this is something that is from live, there wasn't a single lv 9 device that was actually worth the points placed in the skill. The artifacts were good, but honestly...waste the skill points for a slight % chance of getting one? With focus on the newer classes balance being more geared on devices and engines I would hope to see the negatives that are not present on the lv 8's be removed from the lv 9's. This would make the classes more balanced, as it is you take a Jenqui Trader (lv 9 engine/device) and his benefit has become his weakness as there is no right minded individual that will waste points in lv 9 on either of those skills until well after lv 200ish...250 extra warp is not enough to have the extra sig, warp cost and whatever else becomes a hindrance of the lv 9 engines. Also the negative effects of lv 9 devices make them useless to everyone, lv 8 are far better as there are zero negative stats on them. Just an observation as it affects multiple classes, especially the new ones. JT, TS...useless end game skills other than weapons at lv 9..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrell [BT] Posted February 14, 2010 Report Share Posted February 14, 2010 There were some L9 devices that didn't have debuffs, other than the AAs but they were the exception rather than the rule. Chili-Popper was a L9 device that did not have a debuff, Power Augmenter 9 was another. I largely agree, however that L9 devices should have fewer debuffs on them than they currently do. Rather than change most of the existing devices, I think that slowly as the emulator progresses new devices should come into play that make having L9 devices more worthwhile. Since the only people who can use L9 devices are the classes that have an Explorer component, those devices would be for the JE, JW, JT, PE, and TE. (E=explorer). The Blackbeard devices are a start in that direction. Oh and JT has L9 Devices and Reactor, TE has L9 engines/devices. Edited for abuse of commas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenkaris Posted February 14, 2010 Report Share Posted February 14, 2010 Maybe in the emulator you're right, but in live you'd be absolutely wrong. The Intent for the Resolute is a Level 9 Engine that makes the skill worth it ALONE. There are plenty of Level 9 devices that offer no negative effects, but they are generally considered uber to begin with (take a look at the Deadly Focus, for instance) I think there are plenty of things that justify the skill use. I know that I plan to max devices on my Jenquai and engines on my TE, even in the emulator. Honestly, those debuffs hardly matter at 140 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raytan Posted February 14, 2010 Report Share Posted February 14, 2010 I never understood the reasoning behind the negative effects on L5, 6, and 9 devices. In fact I don't recall there ever being a given reason as to why they have negative effects there seems to be no rhyme or reason too it. There are also some weapons, engines, shields, and reactors that have negative effects as well for no apparent reason though the devices seem to have by far gotten the worse of the random negative effects. And yes there are a few L9 devices that don't have negative effects but they are almost exclusively loot only, unique, non manu. Who wants to spend 8 skill points plus huge sums of money upgrading to level 9 devices when they are only slightly better in terms of buffs to level 8's, have significant negative attributes, and are much harder to get to 200% quality then the level 8's? Only way this PS is upgrading to L9 is if I get a few good unique L9 devices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numiah2 Posted February 14, 2010 Report Share Posted February 14, 2010 I get max debuff from a lvl 4 Pavis. No need for a higher lvl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenkaris Posted February 14, 2010 Report Share Posted February 14, 2010 I get max debuff from a lvl 4 Pavis. No need for a higher lvl. I get +40 deflect on 5 different damage types from the L7 Ivory Ward I now manufacture. p.s. I love Liska Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted February 14, 2010 Report Share Posted February 14, 2010 Please can I order one assuming you arent price gouging fellow players lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyran Posted February 15, 2010 Report Share Posted February 15, 2010 Shield and reactor stats scale geometrically, engine warp and thrust scale arithmetically. In other words you gain a huge lot more per level with shields and reactors than with engines. There needs to be more than a (futile) 250 warp and a tiny bit of thrust that seperates lvl 8 and 9 engines As with the level 9 devices, they were obviously made by a dev that fell asleep on his keyboard and rolled his head across it many a time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrell [BT] Posted February 15, 2010 Report Share Posted February 15, 2010 Shield and reactor stats scale geometrically, engine warp and thrust scale arithmetically. In other words you gain a huge lot more per level with shields and reactors than with engines. There needs to be more than a (futile) 250 warp and a tiny bit of thrust that seperates lvl 8 and 9 engines As with the level 9 devices, they were obviously made by a dev that fell asleep on his keyboard and rolled his head across it many a time. Have to agree, considering Max navigate more than makes up the difference between L7 and L9 engines in warp (adds 700 warp). Especially if there's a warp cap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaddex Posted February 15, 2010 Report Share Posted February 15, 2010 May I draw your attention to ... Intent for the Resolute Best engine in the game as far as I see it. Discuss............ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyran Posted February 16, 2010 Report Share Posted February 16, 2010 May I draw your attention to ... Intent for the Resolute Best engine in the game as far as I see it. Discuss............ Shaddex, Tenkaris already brought forward that engine Problem is that the Intent is far and beyond uber, and not "standard equipment". Therefore the majority of people will have no reason to upgrade. This discussion once again boils down to poor item design of Westwood devs, or better said lack of updates for them during live. A lot of items need seriously looked at and revamped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenu [CDEV] Posted February 16, 2010 Report Share Posted February 16, 2010 well most level 9 devices added a new positive effect as well as a negative effect. for instance the phoenix level 8 device had the following buffs: activated- transfer energy equip- increased reactor recharge and the level 9 had activated - transfer energy equip- increased reactor recharge equip- increased scan range equip- reactor damage magnification so the advantage the 9 has over the 8 is increased scan range, a more powerful activated buff, and better equipped buffs. disadvantages are more damage to the reactor and more energy cost. Seems like a pretty good deal to get a 9. Especially since the most important part of the device is to transfer energy and that buff becomes more powerful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irbis Posted February 16, 2010 Report Share Posted February 16, 2010 Shield and reactor stats scale geometrically, engine warp and thrust scale arithmetically. In other words you gain a huge lot more per level with shields and reactors than with engines. There needs to be more than a (futile) 250 warp and a tiny bit of thrust that seperates lvl 8 and 9 engines As with the level 9 devices, they were obviously made by a dev that fell asleep on his keyboard and rolled his head across it many a time. add to the poll that with growing levels you got HU once in a while which radicaly killes your thrust speed to the point when even with the best engine for your level range you are starting to fly slower and slower. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basileus Posted February 16, 2010 Report Share Posted February 16, 2010 well most level 9 devices added a new positive effect as well as a negative effect. for instance the phoenix level 8 device had the following buffs: activated- transfer energy equip- increased reactor recharge and the level 9 had activated - transfer energy equip- increased reactor recharge equip- increased scan range equip- reactor damage magnification so the advantage the 9 has over the 8 is increased scan range, a more powerful activated buff, and better equipped buffs. disadvantages are more damage to the reactor and more energy cost. Seems like a pretty good deal to get a 9. Especially since the most important part of the device is to transfer energy and that buff becomes more powerful. My expereince in Live was that the lv8 devices were already more than good enough so there wasn't really any need to use lv9 devices and when you add the debuff to that it's hard to see any reason to use them at all. Also, the extra buff they got was in most cases redundant since you would often already have another device covering that particular buff. In other words, the increased stats and the extra buff you recieved at lv9 was a very poor compensation for the debuff. //Wex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyran Posted February 16, 2010 Report Share Posted February 16, 2010 Kenu, That's nice but if only all devices had such a good tradeoff at level 9. Unfortunatly debuffs like scan blind, slow proj/ml/beam, increase ship signature and cripple reactor make an item useless compared to the level 8 version. To make lvl 9 devices worth it the debuffs require tuning either by reducing their negative effect (30% scan blind is HUGE), or by changing them to something more adequate to weigh against the buff gained. So for a level 9 device that gains +30 explosive deflect don't add scan blind cuz thats basically killing the item. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistergreen Posted February 16, 2010 Report Share Posted February 16, 2010 The only reason you upgraded to lvl 9 devices is for the Oni Communication Device. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrell [BT] Posted February 18, 2010 Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 My expereince in Live was that the lv8 devices were already more than good enough so there wasn't really any need to use lv9 devices and when you add the debuff to that it's hard to see any reason to use them at all. Also, the extra buff they got was in most cases redundant since you would often already have another device covering that particular buff. In other words, the increased stats and the extra buff you recieved at lv9 was a very poor compensation for the debuff. //Wex Have to agree here too, in Live I mostly used L8 devices on both my JE and JW. I think there was 2 L9 devices I consistently used on my JE, and 1 on my JW. My JW used his M3NDSH32LD3NGB21MF4C5S, that Santa gave him in 03, My JE used a L9 Lazarus, because with it, L8 SS, and L6 Navigate it meant nearly instant 5K warp (which was worth the debuff), and the Chili-Popper, which was a Impact/Energy/Plasma debuffer (Loony's Shield Hammer), usable by JE and PE with a range comparable to a L8 Coma. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyran Posted February 18, 2010 Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 I'm curious if theres any official note taken on things said in the suggestions forum. Can a dev at least say this is a stupid idea and has no merit so we can all get along. Feels the suggestion forum is redundant if theres no real developer input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raytan Posted February 19, 2010 Report Share Posted February 19, 2010 That's how every suggestions section is on every MMO I have ever played, I don't think I have ever seen dev feedback on a MMO suggestion forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcneal222 Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 i say only Black Speed IX Effects Information Turbo Weapons (Equip) :Reduces Weapons Delay by 5.0% when equipped. Increase Maneuverability (Equip) :Increases turn rate by 48.0% when equipped. Reduce Ship Signature (Equip) :Gives a ship 59.0% less radar footprint when equipped. Prismatic Dragon Wing Effects Information Recharge Shields Skill (Equip) :Increases Recharge Shields Effectiveness by 4.5 Skill Level(s) when equipped. Equipment Damage Control - Shields (Equip) :Increases your shield's effectiveness at sustaining damage by 75.0% when equipped. Equipment Damage Control - Reactor (Equip) :Increases your reactor's effectiveness at sustaining damage by 75.0% when equipped. i you finde similar on lv8 leave it me know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrell [BT] Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 I'd say that the Reinforced Solar Sail is a Very good L8 engine, as well as being manufacturable. Being that only Terrans can use L9 engines, I don't think us Non-Terrans mind using this instead, and wouldn't be surprised if a few Terrans find upgrading to L9 engines in lieu of this engine, not necessarily worth the skill points. Reinforced Solar Sail Level 8 engine Signature: 0.0 Warp: 4000 Thrust: 172 (231.77 @ 200% quality) Warp Drain: 18.70 (12.155 @ 200% quality) Shield Renewal (Equip) Reactor Renewal (Equip) Increase Maneuverability (Equip) Device Energy Conservation (Equip) Those shield and reactor buffs are stackable with Reactor Recharge & Shield Recharge, and Device energy conservation, is nice for your debuffers. Chim/Coma for Jenquai, Grand Rada for Terrans, Seeker likes it for her Cobalt Megahurtz or Manticore's Dire Anguish in when she's not using her Chim (using energy beams), Scout for his Salamander's Dire Simoon when he's using Explosive missiles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcneal222 Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 i say again Prismatic Dragon Wing why simple build able lv9 and really nice stats for all trader classes and if im not wrong the trader are the only who can use lv9 engine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrell [BT] Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 i say again Prismatic Dragon Wing why simple build able lv9 and really nice stats for all trader classes Really nice stats for Terran Tradesman, but Progen Privateer (L9 Reactor/Shield) and Jenquai Seeker (L9 Devices/Reactor) cannot use L9 engines. Even if JT could use L9 engines, she gets a buff to Recharge Shields skill on her Sharim Prototype Shield (when the Mordana are added) which makes the Recharge Shields skill buff on the dragon wing redundant. Not to mention, for JT, why would she take an engine with a 0.7K sig over an engine with a sig of 0.0? Device energy conserve also quite useful for all Jenquai, even the JT, since a Jen can never have too much energy and all Jenquai use debuffers. PT may get one on his Crimson Force barrier, not sure. Progen cannot use L9 engines due to race weakness which makes it out of the question anyway for PT. Question though does the TT want to upgrade to that, and leave behind that stackable reactor recharge buff for his L8 reactor? Is that trade worth it? (remember Terrans' racial weakness is reactor) As well as a reduction in the energy he uses for his Grand Rada or other activatable devices? According to Slayerman's database, the device energy conserve, is only avialable on the SS8. (subject to change if devs add equipment with same buff. The zero Siggy thing doesn't hurt either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcneal222 Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 Really nice stats for Terran Tradesman, but Progen Privateer (L9 Reactor/Shield) and Jenquai Seeker (L9 Devices/Reactor) cannot use L9 engines. Even if JT could use L9 engines, she gets a buff to Recharge Shields skill on her Sharim Prototype Shield (when the Mordana are added) which makes the Recharge Shields skill buff on the dragon wing redundant. Not to mention, for JT, why would she take an engine with a 0.7K sig over an engine with a sig of 0.0? Device energy conserve also quite useful for all Jenquai, even the JT, since a Jen can never have too much energy and all Jenquai use debuffers. PT may get one on his Crimson Force barrier, not sure. Progen cannot use L9 engines due to race weakness which makes it out of the question anyway for PT. Question though does the TT want to upgrade to that, and leave behind that stackable reactor recharge buff for his L8 reactor? Is that trade worth it? (remember Terrans' racial weakness is reactor) As well as a reduction in the energy he uses for his Grand Rada or other activatable devices? According to Slayerman's database, the device energy conserve, is only avialable on the SS8. (subject to change if devs add equipment with same buff. The zero Siggy thing doesn't hurt either. if i make a tt for sure i will use lv9 engine soner or later the main problem is jt/ts/pp was not implement on live so we have only this stuff its now job of the content devs to make new stuff for this classes and to add other things 1year befor enb got down was called to come a big update but it never have came Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrell [BT] Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 if i make a tt for sure i will use lv9 engine soner or later the main problem is jt/ts/pp was not implement on live so we have only this stuff its now job of the content devs to make new stuff for this classes and to add other things 1year befor enb got down was called to come a big update but it never have came Okay, curious on the TT, will you upgrade to L9 engine, prior to 150, or use post 150 skill points for that last engine level? For the Scout, Seeker, and Privateer, only 1 of those 3 classes gets L9 engines, but otherwise I agree, they do need more equipment. Especially things made specifically for them, though the Scout and Seeker, are in decent shape on devices simply from the live things they could use. The Salamander Explosive debuffer, Explorers Only, most obviously benefits the Scout, since JE and PE rarely if ever use Explosive, and the Manticore Energy Debuffer, Traders Only, best benefits the JT since she's the only trader who regularly uses energy outside their newb zone (those were in live, but the classes best suited to use them weren't). I think that the Sharim Prototype Shield, and Hyperian Frontier's Friend, the custom L8 shields for Seeker & Scout respectively, are new. (Designed by Emulator devs). Do wonder what's going to be done with the Psionic Shield buff, since JT doesn't have that skill anymore so there really isn't a point to keeping that buff on her custom shield. Agreed on your 3rd point. The BlackBeard stuff is a good start. I remember mention of another patch that was supposed to come around Sunset announce, but I don't know the details of said patch. I do remember the Live Devs saying that the missing classes would not be implemented due to "lack of resources". Can't thank the Emulator devs enough for implemnting them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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