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Damage Ingame Explained.


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I have written a few technical articles on peoples questions from ingame, so it is easier to understand how something works.

 

In this example I'll be explaining the damage numbers you see in the game.

 

And how to enhance the numbers you see.

 

To start with let's explain how the ammo damage works.

 

We'll use level 9 guns for this example so the math doesn't get to fuzzy for some people.

Since the damage is universal I'll stick to a pw and impact ammo so you do not have to count the ticks.

And I'll provide a screen shot of the principals on a serious 1 round impact crit on a weak mob.

 

1. Ammo damage.

2. Dps and how to calculate it with simple math.

3. Weapon skill level damage added.

4. Critical targeting.

5. Enhancers. What works and what doesn't work.

 

Lets start of on ammo damage you have 2 choices on several ammos, vendor and player made.

Let's use Spitter pl impact ammo since the screen shot relates to it.

Spitter ammo 100% = 280

200% ammo = 364 damage per round and 2 rounds fired every time the gun fires.

The gun is at 120%(my current spitter) and has a 3.9 second reload.

PW lvl 7 critical targeting and ol 260+

Rally was engaged and the mob had a gravity link and a skirmish shield debuff.

Gear installed spitter/fotm/4 biles, Skirmish 9 shield 200%, lvl 9 ambush reactor, zues 8 engine 200%

Tactical advantage, intolerance, binder octo. Basic pw impact gear all readily available in the game.

Active buffs rally firing tactics, turbo(77%), Sting octo, and a aa ghatu.

I'm not sure what the rally level 1 buff icon is maybe someone can tell me.

Group makeup is 3 pw's, tt, je, te.

 

Okay ammo damage.

Spitter pl ammo is base damage at

100% is 280 x2

200% is 364 x2

 

The difference is 30% damage from vendor to playermade ammo. Give or take a 1 for server rounding.

Total unbuffed ammo damage per shot (remember the gun fires twice per cycle) = 728 damage per times the gun is fired.

Weapon skill for lvl 9 weapons is +200%(or a multiplier of 3)

The gun reload is 3.9 seconds and the gun fires 15.384 times per minute.

It also fires 2 rounds per shot total of 30 rounds of ammo and a smidge per minute.

Critical damage in this game is simple, base damage and weapon skill times 2.(remember this..)

Damage Enhancements buff the base damage of the ammo ONLY.

 

Weapon dps.

 

It's very simple, it's ammo damage x times fired per minute divided by 60 x skill enhancement (x3 at lvl 9 skill)

 

2(364) x 15.384 \ 60 x 200%(x3) = dps

728 x 15.384 = 11,200

\ 60 (because were calculating damage per second)

x 200% (skill enhancement)

11200 \ 60 = 186.667

x 200% (times 3)

DPS = 559.9776

Very simple this is the base dps of a un-enhanced spitter firing any ammo out of it were using impact because of the dot effect of chem and plasma.

 

For refference a 120% fotm = 235 x 50\60 x3 = 587 dps

200% archos is 437

200% biles are  542

200% fang is     369

100% sing can  135(add 30% for pm ammo and it's still bottom of t8 guns..)

 

1 shot damage = ammo x weapon skill

 

728 x 3 = 2184 non critical hit (see the first picture)

728 x 3 x 2 = 4368 critical (see second picture)

 

client2014-09-1303-43-32-57_zps693fa2db.

 

Unbuffed non crit.

 

client2014-09-1303-21-48-86_zps4c0e1618.

 

Critical unbuffed hit.

 

Okay so using the above 2 pictures I'm dispelling the myth 200% skill enhancement in this game is x2.. it's the gun damage times 2 so it's x3.. don't believe me go do your own math.

 

With the above math and the 2 pictures 1, 2, 3 above have been answered and gives me the opportunity to explain the numbers you see inside of the [ ]

 

Using either picture (well use the second one since it's a crit) the number the damage is showing is 4368 this mob is neither weak nor strong on deflects to impact ammo(plasma and chem are different and I'll get to that for now lets keep it simple)

 

So base crit damage is 4368. The reason I used crit is because it's difficult to not crit on a pw.

When a mob is strong towards an ammo as a deflect the number has a [- ] in the bracket(I can't show it here because of the type of mob)

For example 4268[-100] means the mob deflected 100 damage from the ammo you shot and was damaged 4268 points.

For example 4468[+100] means the mob is weak(or has been weakened thru manipulations by gravity link and other buffs and debuffers)

When you see 0[-4368] the mob is 100% immune to your damage (think emp on hulls)

When you see 4368[+4368] it means you are healing the mob(this is not a good thing...)

The number on the left side of 4268[-100] is the damage, the number in the [ +-] is the damage resisted or the damage added.

 

Picture 3 is plasma ammo against a shielded mob. Plasma ammo ticks 6 times

 

874[+146] x 6 = 5244 damage base damage = 4368 the difference = just a shade less the 20% (given the server calculations and rounding it's 20%)

 

client2014-09-1304-41-12-45_zps6054081a.

 

Picture 4 is against a hulled mob with chemical ammo. Chemical ammo ticks 6 times.

 

874[+145] = exactly the same amount of damage as plasma does against shields.

 

When I shot the shielded test it was 728 x 6 4358 (i'd argue a server calculation difference)

 

For all intents and purposes chem ammo and plasma ammo do exactly the same amount of damage as impact explosive etc.

There is no difference except in the rounding of the server calculations.

So quit thinking plasma is the best ammo in the game.. it's not,  it is exactly the same as the rest except for the 20% against shields(which isn't always...)

 

client2014-09-1304-43-32-01_zps6e08acf4.

 

Color of ammo types. (you can check this by any ammo vendor where archos or zet ammo is sold)

 

Orange = Impact (non crit = yellow in the first screen shot and red in the second one)

Yellow = Chem (critical in red and the ammo damage color is green)

Green = Emp (whitish grey)

Blue = Energy (yellow non crit/red crit)

Red = Explosive (yellow non crit/red crit)

Purple = Plasma (red critical text purple damage numbers)

white/black = Absolute(it's being used for the threaded plasma archos for now till it's changed)(I do not have any threaded archos ammo from before when it was removed)

Green is also used when you are healing a mob regardless of ammo type used you see green text on any ammo other then chem stop firing that ammo or debuff for it.

 

(Right about now I can feel the hatred of stubborn plasma users and my response is ththtbtbtbtbtbtbt get over it. Plasma isn't any better then anything else, always shoot what does the highest damage that you can debuff, it's not rocket science, when chem or emp does more damage on shields then plasma does If you do not believe me check the bottom picture out that is 1 single well buffed round of black spitter impact ammo from a pw, and with a ps's activated damage buffs I have seen 42,000 critical emp hits and 35,000+ explosive hits, I have also seen chemical crit tick at 4200 per tick x 6.. go be a fool and shoot the rd base with plasma and do not come crying to me)

 

I hope everyone is still with me we have 2 more parts to go.

 

Critical targeting.

 

Critical targeting is simple an enhancement on how many times you hit a target critically vrs non critical hits.

Toons with critical targeting = progens.. te/jd 5 of the 9 classes have critical targeting and all 5 are acknowledged as the best combat toons in the game.

We'll use a pw as it's the highest critical targeting toon in the game it has 7 levels and invariably crits on everything.

I'm going to shoot my spitter 10 times and count how many times it crits without any sort of enhancement.

Remember your results may vary I am expecting at least 6 critical hits out of 10.

In 10 shots fired with just native critical targeting skill it was 6 crits and 4 non crits as I suspected.

Enhancing a character beyond lvl 10 skill is pointless since the skill tree's are capped at 10 skill levels.

 

Enhancers(no not male or female enhancers) damage enhancers.

 

Okay what do I mean by enhancers thats simple any item/skill/device that can directly debuff a mob or buff you for added damage and I will not be listing them all but I will list the major players in the game.

 

A large part of this section is explaining what does and doesn't stack say like the sting and aa ghatu stacks but the seal of the dragon doesn't stack with the ghatu and so on.

I'll do my level best to try and make this easily understood but some of this can be very confusing.

 

I'll start the list of normal debuffers that are active skills.

 

Skills:

 

Gravity Link  5-6-7 debuffs impact and explosive, Max gravity link on a pw with a binder octo, the debuff lasts for 30 seconds and has a 9.4k range.

Not much else.

 

Devices.

 

Blacksun(red dragon)

 

Gorgon = Impact

Salamander = Explosive

Basilisk = Chemical

Chimaera = Plasma

Manticore =  Energy

Wyvern = Emp

Petro = Energy

Thordis' Lament = Chemical

Rada = Plasma

Pride devices (various)

Skirmish Shields (agrippa) Impact

Megahurtz Devices.

There might be others, but these are what comes to mind right off the bat.

If i missed any list them in the comments and I can add them at a later date.

Honorable mention Binder devices for the gravity link buffs.

 

Gear that enhances your damage.

 

Basic items that buff your damage by activation.

 

This wont be comprehensive but it'll list the basic device series or aa devices that I know of currently.

 

Sting series for Projectiles

Laser Scope series for Beams.

AA Ghatu An, Pw only enhance weapon damage by 20%

Seal of the Dragon.

The ps based aa devices.

 

Installed gear that adds basic damage to you and your guns.

 

Intolerance

Advanced weapon control system(aka awcs)

Various blacksun weapons off of The Controller(rage/fang)

Heart of the Master.

Titan's heart.

 

With the basic number of 4368 crit on playermade spitter impact ammo, I started installing various devices to see what is and isn't stacking,

Since I wrote my lvl 9 dps lists all those years ago.

It seems things have progressed and have been fixed. That is very nice to know.

 

So borrowing my js'd awcs or testing purposes I started fiddling with installed items first.

 

Basic guns and skills I was consistently seeing 4368 crits as it to be expected. So this is normal.

Adding the awcs for the 3.0% added projectile damage(it enhances the damage of the ammo itself and didn't actually stack when i wrote the dps lists)

I saw 4412 and added amount of damage of 44 damage which is 2%(not 3 like it's listed but it does work) added damage.

Using the intolerance and no added damage buffs I saw 4949 which is 581 13.34% difference (not the 40 listed)

non crit is 2474

 

I am going to change the way this post is laid out because of problems I found in my testing.

As you can see by the above paragraph of text I started getting some really wierd numbers and it continues ( for example I activated my aa ghatu and shot the shield mob and received 4 different damage numbers for no reason) the seal of the dragon is listed as 10% and it added 2% at most and so on. I am going to run the numbers from 3/10/(the sting buff damage adder) 20% ghatu 30% gravity link 40% intolerance and the 60% number from the skirmish shield. i will list the actual math based numbers and my actual damage numbers. i explained the problem to a gm and dev and they asked me to post the screen shots for the numbers also so at this point I am done testing this is strictly for the dev's to see what i found.

 

Okay we'll use the actual numbers from the ammo do the math and list the various percentages.

 

To calculate % under 100% it's simple times the number by 1.xx so I'll do 3 10 20 (17 something for the sting iirc) 20 for the ghatu and so forth

 

Base non crit is 2184

Base crit is 4368

I'll list it as non crit/crit 2184/4368 to avoid confusion.

This is assuming the added damage is based upon these numbers, the other option is the damage is added to the base before the skill multiplier.. Only a sdev can answer that question but it still wont explain the damage numbers.

 

3%        =  2249.52/4409.4 AWCS  2206/4412

4%        =  2271.36/4542.72  (skirmish added damage activated on a different mob) 2213/4426

10%      =  2402.4/4804.4  (no seal currently)

14%      =  2489.76/4979.52  (sting octo by itself)  2288/4575

20%      =  2620.8/5241.6  2330/4659  (sting and ghatu stacked is 34% 2433/4866)(with the 4% from the skirmish) 2462/4924

30%      =  2839.2/5678.4  Gravity link.  2839(+655)/5678(+1310)(Level 5 and lvl 7 gravity link are identical damage)(this is correct with the math btw)

39.9%   =  3055.416/6110.832 Intolerance  2474/3712/4949/7423(No I'm not kidding) It gave all 4 of these numbers I have the screen shots to prove it if you want them.(see the screen shot below) there were no applied debuffs on the mob at all I check it every time I add a new item to test and relog between activayed buffs so nothing stacks)

58.9%   =  3470.376/6940.752   3538//7075 (the shield adds 4% for 60 seconds and the debuff states it's good for 240 seconds wears off when the added 4% bonus turns off) so this is broken also. damage looks really close but since the 4% doesn't wear off correctly all i can say is it's close. 4% is 87 difference for non crit so 3538 - 87 = 3451 (about 16 high but really close and we can accept a little server rounding) so i'll call this one accurate but broken since the debuff only lasts 60 seconds vrs 4 minutes like it's listed.

I'll try to replicate the 18k crit this should be entertaining and it'll require the mob to respawn.

(I did indeed get really close to replicating the 18k crit with several in the 15k range)

 

I did a little quick mental arithmetic and came up with the gear I have it adds 169% added damage to 4368 the total for that is 11749 it was damned close with 12213(which is really close to being right) but the 13301/15513 and 18k crits kinda make you wonder.. I did replicate the crits using just my spitter for a sdev and a webdev. the numbers are there and at least one of them saw them.

 

These are the numbers I should see when using each buff(the 10% for the seal will be problematic because it's impossible for me to get currently in time for the dev meeting)

These numbers are assuming ammo damage x weapon skill level + added damage if it's different then technically the numbers should be higher.. Only a sdev can clarify this but I believe the numbers will show the situation.

 

Intolerance 7423 crit. 4949 is consistent and it puts up 2 different non crit numbers 3712/2474

 

client2014-09-1403-39-08-22_zpsc7448486.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I was firing 1 gun and it took a couple mobs to get this good of a picture, please pardon the white flash. (it didn't help with 2 other pw's shooting the same mobs)

I'll try to replicate it on my pw on the test mobs in jupiter.

 

client2014-09-1301-51-23-43_zps23783da5.

 

If this isn't silly I dunno what is.

Edited by Tradermagoo
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Whem I started this thread I was just going to write up how things worked colors and so on related to the guns and ammo themselves, and I started testing items to see what stacked and what didn't and the problems began.

 

I did not write this to cause the people involved more work or problems, this was a serious attempt to explain something many people misunderstand in the game.

 

I noticed the problems and brought it up to a gm and a dev and was asked to write up what I found so they could have it for todays meeting.

I was asked to provide screen shots if needed(hence the writing change and the wierd screenshot of the intolerance crit).

This in no way was done to anger anyone.

I had thought all this stuff was fixed since I wrote my dps lists in late 2011 early 2012 and hadn't thought about the problem in years and then I started getting wierd damage numbers on the mordana that are much higher then what I would have expected.

 

Hence the first 2/3rds of the article is nothing but explaining how it works color etc then while writing the article with my pw in jupiter at the test mobs I saw the beginnings of the problem and found a gm and went hayyyy and it progressed from there.

 

I am sorry if anyone is confused by the change in format if you were reading it for info and went wtf is he smoking now (honest it wasn't ev's peace pipe..).

It was partially written in response for the dev's and gm's and the change towards the end.

 

I would like a mod to close this thread for now.

 

The information is accurate up until the last section where the problems began so if you want to read it till that point the rest of it was for the dev meeting and I'm considering this a lost thread because of it.

I'll not comment on anything beyond this and maybe in the spring after some changes are made I'll take this back up and copy paste the info from the 4th section up and paste is and finish the article properly.

 

I am sorry for any confusion this has caused and appologise to anyone affected adversly it wasn't my intention at all.

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I dont know who else you annoyed, but for my part i can tell you this:
 
If you think you find a bug, report it.
If you think you find an easy reproducable exploit, you can even report it via PM so no1 else can read along.
 
You were asked to do this, to send a PM to me so i can reproduce this bug here and fix it. So far i've heard nothing from you but what i do hear is that you are chatting about all this in game.
Every other player is using the bug tracker system or the PM system to report such things, why cant you simply do the same? Why do you have to be "different" all time, just causing headache?
 
More so, you come here and post "drama" again.
Sigh.
 
 
I am still awaiting your PM how to test this ASAP.
 
If you know about an exploit and dont help staff to reproduce/fix it although asked, the logical consequence is to consider, that you dont really want to report it/making use of it.
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