efialtis

Where in heavens name you ever saw a system controlled by the players and enforced by the devs? You really must be joking.

I applaud this prs fest. Well done Sir.

Flamingpanda if you haven't been able to raid so far because of the number of people comprising Public group the further split up will make positions available to you that previously were not. The restrictions and leeway i propose work towards benefiting the outsiders like yourself. See my answer to Gunney.   Still you vaguely say that 5 groups now (up from 3) control the endgame while i have proved you otherwise.   Now if you don't have any friends in this game to play with no amount of discussion can change your perspective. The raids were not designed to be completed by a single person. There is other content for that.   In the end what is your proposition and its advantages? i have made mine, can you?

Lets break down your points of concern gunney.   'The "Invites" to fill slots mentioned above would no doubt go to 'select people'. So i assume you're not in one of the named 5 and you don't have friends in any of them. Still the Public spot is yours and yours alone along with its loot and that loot is guaranteed to go to you if my plan gains traction. Still its up to the named 5 if they will even ask for outside help cause maybe they can singlebox every raid with their members alone as some have stated. Each guild is responsible for its own actions and the restrictions are to safeguard you and your equal opportunity, plus the leeway i'm promoting still might work in your favor and i hope you can see my design makes an effort to benefit the outsider.   'Also no one has said much about those who are in time zones that don't see raids due to low server pop in their time zone.  Do VGE/Static/BI  schedule their raids so that those players can join in? I know the public does not.' I know for a fact that BI/Static/VGE make efforts to include all their players regardless of the timezone. Thats why the rotation switch date was changed so the whole weekend was available for better organizing to include them at least once per rotation slot. If the Public makes no such efforts that is their problem to solve and you should take it up with them. You can't really expect us to be responsible for them do you?   Seems the gripe is with the way the public is managing its people and resources all along and i'm sorry to realise that so late in the discussion.

Please explain to me why the 5 are more desirable. You haven't really said anything except it wouldn't work for you flamingpanda. Which content is created for specific groups? Also please read my Playground analogy and explain why it's wrong.

Ok i will make my suggestion using Holymans as a groundwork.   Make a 6 week rotation with 5 of them towards BI, Static, VGE, EG and SCC and the 6th one to Public. Since you already stated that public raiding without EG and SCC is almost non existent i see no need atm for anything more.   Now for slots belonging to the named 5 (lets go with that for a sec) each of them is forbidden to include members of the other 4 but can include any number of people not affiliated with the named 5.   For example VGE is forbidden to include people from BI/Static/EG/SCC but can include eg from Phoenix and Lunar Dawn, EG is forbidden to include people from SCC/VGE/Static/BI but can include eg from Disciples of Rebellion and Team Relaxed etc   For the Public anything except the named 5 goes.   What this plan tries to ensure is that everyone within the named 5 gets the same chance for the fun and loot with even a bit more favor towards those that need it and maybe cant get it on their own (Public).   Now i understand if Public needs a bit of help for a bit to nail down the basics. Of course a gathering of 2 each of VGE/Static/BI/EG/SCC and 2 from other guilds is not considered a Public raid for rotation purposes. Public players should be in excess of 65% at all times. (eg 9 out of 12). Anyone within the named 5 can help but will claim no loot at all times. ALL the loot will go to the few Public attendees and its up to them to distribute it to the rest of their guild members.   If at any point the unique participants of Public regularly exceed the raids max capacity (2-3 groups) we can revisit the rotation.   We can even divide DT into a Scooter and a Genril raid so only one slot will be in 'off mode' during a rotation. Aso align them so those 2 are not consecutive raids for any slot.   Fair, Unfair, for who and Why? Discuss

I feel we're circling this topic over and over again. I will try to explain it as simple as i can, i will use an analogy.   Some claim that 3 guilds own the 75% of the raids so lets try to break this down for you in simple terms.   This game has a finite number of raids just as a playground has a finite number of toys.   All the kids in the neighborhood want to go to the playground and enjoy the toys like all E&B players want to do the raids.   I understand some raids are more desirable than others being by simple preference, loot usefulness or just loot quantity. Same in the playground, some kids like some toys better than others or in a given day they want to do just one thing or there is even a toy they don't like.   Like i have mentioned before, unfortunately in E&B the current game design cant support a high number of people concentrated in a single area and that is unlikely to change as long as the devs don't have any control over an important game element, the game client. Similarly there are only so many of the spring riders or swing seats or of the sliders etc in the playground.   If the kids were left unchecked to just do whatever they please all the time imagine what would regularly happen in the playground. Same in E&B and thats where the rotation agreement comes into play. It splits the kids into groups and says you kids can have the swings this time while the other group of kids gets the spring riders etc consequently all the kids get something to do instead of fighting over with each other.   Its my understanding some kids will be doing something they might don't prefer to do or even something they don't like one day (rotation slot) BUT they will get to do that the next time (another rotation slot). But ALL kids get to play in the playground and regularly get to do the fun things they want.   Please explain to me in simple terms what your objection with that is and how the groups of kids who participate in this plan are owning the playground as you claim.   For the rare kid who only wants to be a bully and fight in the playground and will go push another kid from the swing so it can take its place guess what happens. Even if it doesn't get punished for what it has done it will end up alone in the swing with no one to boost him.

Here are my observations and deductions from Gunneys and GHMs posts.   There is hardly any public left to raid after you remove EG and SCC from the equation. In spite of that those two guilds still make up more than BI, Static and VGE combined according to your calculations. Raids are better done from those that can 'speed run' them plus conveniently forgetting the current messed up state on debuffing equipment and how much it affects the raids. Classic example of mine is bigger than yours childish mentality. And finally I am correct in my observation that those vocal about change and 'wasted' opportunities are those who already raid with the knowledge and equipment to do so, they just want a bigger pie. GHB for your information i too have watched a Public raid getting abandoned and most everyone on Genril regularly just kills him with all the other mobs left untouched. This is exactly the vendor side of the raids Holyman reported and i don't think anyone has been innocent of that. As for not being able to field raids without multiboxing from my admittedly limited experience with PRS and Publicly organized raids i have seen enough of multiboxing as well as direct statements from you that you will bring your 2 eg TEs with who you are so good and uber. Maybe i'm just so unlucky that i haven't been to many that all were single boxing or just maybe its that selective memory of yours in play again.   Please spare me from the 'Protectors of the weak' speeches unless you're running for office, then by all means continue and see how many you will fool.   Holyman i feel your proposition should be discussed further.

Holyman i agree with enough of the points you make.   Yes certain people camp specific spawns like Modis child, Celestial Warder, Desash the Plague etc. If you been around those spots enough times i'm sure you'll notice a few toons that will regularly be there and most likely they have more than what they need of the loot by now. Some of them might even be kind enough to give away, share or sell. Nothing guarantees though it will be them who will get to kill the mob. Its perfectly simple so that anyone can go out there and compete. Sure you might not manage to be on top every time but you are guaranteed to get the mob once in a while so if you want it enough you will make it happen. I've done my share of that for myself and others. I will go there and kill Desash, Modis Child or Warder enough times that will satisfy my needs and my friends needs and then you wont see me again for months until another friend will need some of that loot. Even those that camp regularly cant be behind the monitor 24/7. On the other hand i see people complain about it but not willing to do what it takes to get what they want in those spots. I'm not saying 'Area Denial' is a commendable practice but so is waiting for things to just happen to you without putting any effort, even in a game.   As for the raids, they are both a high end content experience and a loot vendor, i sincerely don't think anyone tries to exclude other people from them. The simplest way for me to show you that is tell you that whenever we pioneered a raid (like VGE did with RD base and the DT spawns) we never held anything back. We actually shared our observations and experiences with the community so we could all benefit. I believe that to be true for all groups/guilds involved with the very first raids that were done in the emulator and whether you like it or not it has always been Static, BI and VGE plus there were no agreements around at the time so it could get really competitive.   The funny thing with those who are vocal about change and 'wasted' spawns is the fact they are the same people who already raid. Because they would have promptly dispatched the raid meaning they have the knowhow and the gear to make short work of them. Those are probably the same people that will be vocal about the PS and TS being able to make their own ammo (nothing more than a minor inconvenience) and the devs will add the new skill. Will kill a mob 10 times and complain they didn't get the drop they wanted and the devs will adjust it, only to revert it back after a short while, Will complain because Lyle wasn't giving his missions for the new DT devices to the TS and the devs would oblige, even when it makes perfect sense since bogerils hate terrans etc   If you can think of a method that means raids are actually done by people with little to no experience and who really need the gear i will support it.

I remember in the previous thread about the rotation i commended epic for keeping their cool and not doing anything rush. I don't seem to recall some1 'taking' the raids but if thats what you wanna remember sure. I actually urged towards another slot in the rotation and being accepted so yeah i call bull as well.   I think Overt nailed down a major point in his post. I too believe there are a few greedy people out there with 12-15-20 or more toons and they feel they are entitled to have raid loot for their 2nd TE, their 4th PW or their 3rd JD instead of giving a rats ass about the one that doesn't have one even for his 1st toon. And even when they have equipped all of them they will still hoard and try to make ridiculous exchanges for that single item that god forbid hasn't fell into their lap yet. Those are usually the most vocal, don't ask me why and I agree its a small community so thats why these behaviors stand out.  Neither politeness nor altruism can really be enforced or governed, you either have it or you don't.

Check if you are logged in @net-7.org  then try the DB again, just type manticore and press search button

Look up in the DB for the parts you need and after you have them ask in market channel for a builder. I'm sure someone will be happy to make one for you.

Christmas is upon us and honoring its spirit VGE is opening its RD rotation week to everyone, so grab your friends and do it or grab whoever you can find and still do it as long as everyone has fun.   Merry Christmas from VGE.    

Gunney thank you for the explanation. I'm not a programmer but i know enough to find that the player wipe aspect of a timer change is highly improbable. We have seen with a simple server patch/restart alterations to specific mobs/mini bosses timers with no wipe and i fail to see how raid triggers could be much different in that regard.   Honestly even if parts of the server were recompiled with the new time adjustments that wouldn't change the way the DB, that holds all the player/game info, is read. Even new Skills were added without sacrificing the player base. Just really curious.   @Syber What in Valen's name are you talking about. :P  Best Scifi show ever!

Gunney i never asked for a definition of Public neither i asked you to police the existence of players with toons in one of BI/Static/VGE and in one of the Public guilds. Now telling on them to their other guild isn't really a rule is it? Do you accept them knowing their 'raid competing' guild duality or not? Its as simple as that. I have personally removed from VGE players that had toon(s) in a 2nd guild and i have seen players pull all of their toons into VGE after we informed/reminded them of our rule about that. That doesn't mean we are a 'The core is father, The core is mother' (hope someone gets the scifi reference ;) ) mentality guild but rather we try to safeguard against ethically grey areas that might arise from such practices.   Also you haven't really clarified if VGE/Static/BI players are allowed into Public rotation raids or not. From where i stand leaving the issue 'in the balance' paints a very opportunistic picture, at least to me because either allowing or disallowing them to participate comes with its own set of problems right?   Finally thank you for clarifying the loot distribution for me.   @cimbad "and correct the devs cannot change the spawn timers without resetting the server and everybody goes to lvl 0 again"   Do you really mean that only a player wipe can change the spawn timers? A Dev said that to you?

End game raid content is unfortunately crippled in the emulator. We all want that content, some more than others, but we have to make concessions so it remains fun and enjoyable and not an exercise in frustration. ALL raids can be done with a single group who has a plan and works well together. I know for a fact that we in VGE can do that and i've seen posts from others stating the same. Raids are under-powered to various degrees and there is one main reason for that. A high player count in a single area is problematic. I think most will agree that 2 groups is the tipping point before lag and disconnections ruin the fun and effectiveness of everyone involved. Unfortunately the server can't handle the background graphics. decorations, Space objects, NPCs, enemies and all the players ships, weapon and skill efects and calculations. I believe the current state of development makes nearly impossible for the devs to change this. It would have been a blessing if we could all work together. I'll admit the rotation schedule is by no means perfect but i feel the proposed 6 week change has the same issues with the current. It seems you think Static raids with BI, BI raids with VGE etc In the current schedule BI, Static, VGE and Public are allotted one slot for the same raid effectively performing the same raid once per month or 25% within the schedule. In the proposed schedule Static, BI and VGE are allotted one slot every 6 weeks for the same raid (~16%) and Public 3 same raids within the 6 weeks (50%). I wonder if this can be considered a fair improvement by all. An issue of Timezones(TZ) was mentioned. We have observed that if a raid is completed within the confines of a TZ the next spawn usually happens within that TZ again giving to the same people the ability to redo the raid in their time. This will roll over to the next rotation slot and so on until someone complains. Its hard enough as it is to resolve that within a single guild, i've seen it, let alone when multiple guilds with multiple members scattered across all TZ are involved.   Lastly i gotta ask. What are the rules of public rotation raids regarding who can participate and loot distribution in addition to having toons in multiple 'raid competing' guilds. Can i have a toon in eg Sirius Cybernetic Corporation, Driver Carries no Cash, The Disciples of Ore and in VGE or Static or BI? Does that give me the opportunity to participate in all scheduled rotation raids and loot distribution? I know VGE, BI and Static have their own rules about that so what are the Publics rules on those? If Public rotation raids are open to everyone and Prrekoorb, Allura and Raiderman join one before the ranks are full, then a Public player shows up later what are the rules about that? Changes without clarifying the underlying rules wont resolve the rotation issues. Make a concise proposition that addresses all the points of concern, i believe reasonable people play this game and you will find allies if what you say is well thought out. If you think making these events triggered will remove all rotation issues i'll support it even though i fear they will bring more serious problems for the player base. Fly safe and Have fun Efialtis

Personally i agree with all those who said leave it as it is. As most everyone agreed things are calm and going well right now so there is no need to stir the pot.   There are always those who will thrive on conflict and our efforts to accommodate players from all timezones will be called out as ungentlemanly behavior. And then there are those that "feel the need" to have toons spread out into multiple 'competing' guilds.   So yeah, leave it as it is pls.   Continue having fun out there, Efialtis.

I was away for about a month and thought to scroll through new forum threads to find this. Sorry to hear about your condition woodstock and my best wishes for a positive outcome.

Southwest of Hau there is a crystal circle and some wrecks, Ascendant Voltoi is usually there....24h timer

lol Thank you Alurra for speaking better English than i do :) .   Syber doing the mission 80 times for a stack of ribs/tooth feels like adding the new stack build but capping it at 3 at a time. Yes its nice to have but you couldn't have build 5 different component stacks in 5 mins.     I'm always appreciative of the work devs put into this game and the only whine you ever hear from me is removing that silly NOS device from the game, Personally I don't play any progens to even care about it lol.

Good one ArthurDent. lol   As i understood the topic this exchange was introduced to help balance the consumption of ribs vs tooth in regards to their drop rate. Lets say they drop about the same but the rate by which progens go through tooth is much higher. Seems counter productive that you can only exchange 3 at a time. It should have been at least a whole stack per exchange.

The solution is simple.   Make your 2nd screen (extended) to the right of your main one in the desktop management tab of your GFX configuration program . It has to do with how the game interprets the screen coordinates. Can't understand "negatives", think of it as a X/Y axis.

Why is there a need to make things easier than what they are? You need a better setup to debuff  the mobs more than the 72 cap you say there is for making raids raids go faster/easier? There is no denying you can already use only explosive/impact/energy/emp in most raids if you wish so that the added damage over time calcs of plasma/chem wont cause lag, correct? Even progens have the option to use explosive (flechette line PLs) so if less lag is what you are after you can already do that, It will just take you longer to complete.   Mobs and players here don't constantly recharge their shields like in live, a thing that has made irrelevant a host of items that boost shield recharge rate and affect mostly the Progen Sentinel, but have also made possible for a single group to tackle most raids like quite a few have pointed out. Devs then tried to make things harder but adding millions of shields and hulls to mobs so that raids can take longer, then they added resistances for the same reason and to force specific damage types in those raids.   Game is easy enough as it is and changing the game as to accommodate the old live practice of constant shield recharge is a huge rebalancing task that i'm afraid the limited Dev resources make impossible. I still believe you're trying to change how the game/classes work so it can align more with your way of playing.

I understand the need for less lag in raids...which isnt as bad as it used to be thanks to the devs and the options they gave us to reduce it.   But, i fail to see how this impact debuffer is any different than asking for an Explosive debuffing ML in another thread.   As for the 1 & 3 sure go ahead Energy and Plasma and Explosive debuffs can't stack more than what the L9 debuffer plus the chilli popper can atm unless i'm missing something.