Bidoc

  I remember either 2 or 3 weeks there when the server reset, and the spawn timer also reset, and B.I. did not get a spawn at all.

    B.I. does have the player advocate.  Shadow has had his say on that matter and I do agree with him.  I didn't here anyone using Uban's membership in static in such a way.   B.I. does not have an active dev.   While Michaile does have access to an active GM account, he is also on the ethics commitee.  He does not always agree with Magoo's actions or the way he goes about things.  I have never seen him offer special treatment or consideration to any member of B.I. nor have I ever heard any member of B.I. ask for special consideration.   Watch yourself Nic.  You have made some valid points and I don't disagree with your guild's position on FFA raids.  Continuing with unvalidated slander can only hurt you.   I missed the Troller raid ( too bad ).  I was there for the GoBB raid ( woot!  good fun ).  Get over it guys it's a game.  Static should have waited to the end of the rotation before beginning your FFA campaign.  Wait ... who went 1st?  Who went last?   LoL

This is a new searchable and editable, item drop database. Anyone may search for drops. You will be required to make an account to contribute information. [url="http://enb.drpzone.com"][color="#FF0000"]http://enb.drpzone.com[/color][/url]

Ok folks, the new database is online. It's not pretty yet, but it is functional. Anyone can search for drop locatons. You'll have to sign up for an account to add drop locations. [url="http://enb.drpzone.com"][color="#FF0000"]drpzone.com[/color][/url]

[quote name='Kyp' timestamp='1301246041' post='37318'] Sure, I believe I said earlier that I'd pull a snapshot of all the items but wipe out the locations where they can be found. That should be up to you guys to collect, not have handed to you. [/quote] Great! That is a starting point, tho quite a bit less than I had hoped for. With my limited motivation, I can begin an open database to which players may add information as it is aquired.

[quote name='Jarod' timestamp='1301240359' post='37312'] In what way did I attempt to portray you as anything? I only know you by what you write and you wrote "Still, I for one could be completely happy to never buy or ask another player for anything." and I asked then why play an MMORPG? I didn't call you any names, imply anything about your psyche, merely asked a question about why someone that has explicitly stated they'd be happy to NEVER ask another player for anything would want to play a game with other players. Not sure what nerve that struck to prompt a claim that I was attacking you - by asking a simple question. [/quote] Your post along with several other's were beginning to build a theme. But, you're right, your's was a civil suggestion. Perhaps I chose the wrong place to interject. Still my point above is valid. Rather than suggesting I may be playing the wrong kind of game, why not stick to the topic of discussion and express a reason for your objection to the release of the loot tables? That is, if you do object.

[quote name='Jarod' timestamp='1301237288' post='37305'] If what you want is an encyclopedia and atlas listing every drop, provided by the Net-7 staff, they've already said you aren't going to get it. I happen to be in agreement with that stance. While I don't have any hard data to point to, my gut feeling is that more *active* players agree with that stance than disagree. [/quote] I have said before, those that don't want the information don't have to use it. I can only wonder at the motivation behind keeping it from those of who do want it. Perhaps, as Kyp has suggested the information could be held for ransom and the older players, with more knowledge of the EnB universe, could demand payment for it. Is this the direction you want the game to go? I have also seen many of the dissenters saying, "The devs say no, so that's it." Thats not an argument, that's an endorsement. I have explained why I want the information publicized. How about expressing a reason for your stance?

[quote name='Jarod' timestamp='1301237728' post='37306'] Perhaps, then, an MMORPG really isn't the right game? I mean, seriously, with that type of stance what is the point of playing a game with other people? [/quote] Perhaps for the companionship or to share the experience of hunting some very tough mobs, or even to ask for and recieve some help in a difficult situation. Please refrain from trying to paint me as a social misfit, just because I might ocassionally enjoy doing something on my own.

[quote name='Fuulish' timestamp='1301234847' post='37300'] @Kyp/CDel/Bidoc A compromise then? Since the Net7 db already shows information you're okay with, and hides the "fun" aspect of the information, would you be willing to do a static extract/dump of that view for folks that are interested in building their own player contributed wiki/database? This static dump need not be updated ever, it's simply a set of seed data. If no, that's fine, just thought I'd toss that idea out there. ----- @Everyone For everyone asking for a "better" database, the game (and all others in this genre) already provide a very workable, live and organic database that has search capabilities that far exceeds anything you could find on the web. It's the global chat channel, or in our case, market channel. Ask it a natural language question and oftentimes you'll receive an answer within seconds. No need to learn SQL or fancy advanced search forms. How easy is that? Joking aside, the Net7 database provides the right amount of information for a lot of needs. For what's missing, the player channels really do do a great job of filling in the rest, give it a try. ----- Re: hiding information for the benefit of the game and enhancing exploration There may be drops that are hard to find simply because they're randomly linked to illogical mobs. I know this part of the game is still a work in progress. As the game continues to develop, I'd like to suggest some things for the content team: - Link items to more logical mobs so folks can have a fighting chance when it comes to organically discovering the mob that drops a certain item. - Or add some random drops in the game that are vendor fodder, but have descriptive text that enhance the "explore" aspect of the game. Like the old drops that hinted at hidden Chavez bases. For those that played EVE, there used to be drops that hinted at pirate plexes. Stuff like that. - Add random hint dialog to NPCs. Perhaps the folks at Trader's Fort could tell you about a rumor they heard from their mother's sister's second son's wife's hairdresser about a hidden base in Niff Cloud that was researching some interesting devices. Just some thoughts. [/quote] Very nice Fuulish. Thanks for the input. I like the suggestion to offer clues in game it would make hunting items even more interesting than looking for them in a database. I have also asked for a snapshot of the db as it exists now as a starting point, because the loot tables are changing. Drops and loot locations have changed since I began a few months ago. Any static database would be out of date before it was published which makes the suggestion of compiling my own db by gathering the info, a suggestion to excercise in futility.

[quote name='C Del' timestamp='1301205481' post='37293'] You don't need to talk down to me and tell me read more carefully to make your point. That said, I wasn't referring to the difficulty of publicisizing the information. (see my reply to Eviticus' post below) I'm sorry you have trouble finding some items - maybe those items don't drop often enough - but giving out drop information just defeats the purpose of the game. With that much data, gameplay becomes robotic, i.e. "Go to <X,Y,Z>, kill <mob>, get item, analyze item, rinse, repeat." Mystery is good for brain cells. You are correct, sir. The data is actually all there already, all we have to do is set a flag to 0 to make a drop appear. [/quote] I apologise if you felt I was talking down to you, it certainly wasn't my intent. Please do tho, if you have not already, read the entire topic. You will find the reason for my prompt as well as other arguments in favor of this suggestion and why I think it is the proper course. You are correct in that I misinterpreted your post as to the availability of the of the web service. I supposed you were having difficulty acquiring the bandwidth required or something along those lines. I do however understand how a database works and the functionality of the hide bit. With that said, I know the information is already there, just not visible to the players.

[quote name='C Del' timestamp='1301199895' post='37287'] Forgive me, but this is absurd. There is absolutely no precedent for an MMO giving away vital game information like this to players. If you don't want to run around and look for things and really get to know the universe, I'm not sure what to tell you. That's all part of the game; that's what EnB is, and it's not going away. Furthermore, you can get a good idea of what mob should drop a certain item by the item itself. If it's a mordana item, it probably drops from mordana; if it's a solar sail, it probably drops from bogeril or scuttles, etc. Sure, this can be more complicated for components and certain items, but it sure isn't impossible, and you can always ask others for help. The bottom line is: this just isn't remotely within the realm of possiblity. The content devs are in agreement that providing complete drop info is not a good idea, and honestly, some staff have had to really push to get the web services we currently provide approved. Initially, mob drops were supposed to be completely hidden, i.e. all items. At least even with hidden drops now, you can tell whether or not there is indeed a mob that drops the item somewhere out there. [/quote] There have already been several examples provided and linked where mmo's do in fact give access to their data, at least in part, whether in the form of a static dump or through live connection. If you would also read more, you'd see I said I would write and publish a searchable database myself for those interested, if I had access to the information. So your arguement of the devs having a hard time providing the web service required is invalid. I do, at least initially, search within the game for items and I know my way around the EnB universe pretty well. Rarely do I even refer to the galaxy map. You are correct in that many of the items may be located thru a process of deduction. But there are those that may not be found that way and in the case of rare and very rare items dropped only from a specific mob, how can you even be sure you're hunting the right thing, particularly so with components. For instance, I use Big Berthas on my TS. The ammo uses a player made comp dropped only from the level 33 freighter near one of the asteroid belt gates in Saturn. It took me days of killing that same mob to even get a single drop of the item I needed. Had I not known for sure that particular mob would eventually drop the item, I may never have acquired it.

[quote name='Eviticus' timestamp='1301199622' post='37285'] You......you have played the Emu, right? I mean we are talking about the same game, right? I have never, ever encountered having to bribe a player for information in this game or any other. I have encountered people trading in game currency or favors for items/knowledge/assistance. But never bribery, that's way too strong. The 'good will' of others in the EnB Emu is more constant than death or taxes. In other games maybe, but if you do not trust the good will of people in this game I really have to wonder how much you have interacted with people. Try to get something built at F7 and they will bludgeon you with helpfulness and good will. Provided you are polite and have the components to build the item. And as far as "Anytime a thing is not freely available, someone will hoard what they have found and seek some way to profit and parlay their possession of it into a power position" I would have to say in general yes, but not in this community and not in many communities in many MMO's. I am almost positive for ever one story of a miserly a**hole in a MMO I can come up with 5 stories of charity, kindness, and assistance in a MMO. As far as information anyways. The only times I can think of information that is truly guarded and very hard to get is things like exactly when a boss died(one who is on a timer respawn window), the reason being some people killed it and are trying to get it's drop, and they want to control who knows when it will respawn so they have to face less competition. Also possibly (more specific to EnB) where the most profitable fields to mine are at. Ones most likely to contain highly coveted ores. Neither of these two things were ever part of the EnB Database, and only the mining field info would ever really be something that could even be on a site. Time of Death for boss mobs is just one of those things you either know cause you were there, heard it from someone who was, or you don't. There is nothing stopping you from camping that mob to find out Time of Death on your own though. [/quote] It wasn't me who suggested you might bribe a player for information, but Kyp did. Please do more than scan the topic before going on like this. Now I'll have to do damage control. I do agree with you, this is a very friendly and cooperative community. I want to keep it that way. I don't believe hiding the loot tables will accomplish that. I can only say with the attitude toward making that information available, I hope your opinion of this community holds true. But you have already cited examples of people within the EnB community doing exactly as I described.

[quote name='Eviticus' timestamp='1301196947' post='37282'] Cut throat how? As far as I can tell the move is a move towards helping the Community to rely on eachother. [/quote] Bribing a player for information about an item..... Relying on the good will of others, call me a skeptic, but not a good idea..... Anytime a thing is not freely available, someone will hoard what they have found and seek some way to profit and parlay their possession of it into a power position. This may not be apparent with the game in it's current state, but if locations of items are not available to all, those with that information will not give it away freely.

[quote name='Kyp' timestamp='1301195536' post='37279'] I notice you failed to mention anything about bribing another player for the information. You make it seem as if its: 'You're either with us, or you're against us.' which is not the case. We won't dash their playstyle on the rocks to support yours. [/quote] I never intended to imply you're with me or against me. In fact, you are doing that, not I. I am asking for more diverse style of play while you are limiting it to one of your choosing. You'll dash my style to support their's. Again, making the info available doesn't require anyone to use it. It appears to me, you're pushing for a cut throat environment, perhaps inspired by Eve. I do hope not. This is a fun game, Eve is not. This is a friendly game, Eve is not. This is the game I have chosen to play for now, Eve is not.

[quote name='Kyp' timestamp='' post=''] Why would we design content for a massively multiplayer game to be aimed at a solo player? Solo players in my day did it for the "challenge" of doing it alone, not just to avoid human contact. Nothing is stopping players from collecting and displaying the information, we won't say a word. [/quote] I did not request content be designed for solo players, merely open up the same content to a more diverse style of play, including the more independant players. I don't intend to avoid contact, I just don't think it should be [i]required[/i] in every aspect of the game, or in life. Perhaps you missed the part about a tight circle of friends? And where's the challenge in asking someone else to do it for you? At least if the information is available, I can look it up myself, go get it myself and build it myself. Much more of a challenge there than asking another player where to get it or depending on someone else to have the blueprint for me. Player's collecting and publishing this information is all well and good, Kyp. But as you have said this is unfinished and evolving even as we discuss it. Drops are not the same now as when I joined this community a few months ago. Therefore, a little help from the devs is not an unreasonable request at this point. If, I could just get a static dump of the loot tables from time to time, I could write and publish a searchable database for those interested.

[quote name='Maniac' timestamp='1301184775' post='37260'] Problem with your request is this, How hard is it to ask someone else were something might be? Or perhaps ask if someone else has said item that they are not using? True asking for an item that someone dont need anymore wont work with non-trade items but thats were the channels and asking for information comes into play. The whole point of a MMO IMO and im sure others is communication. What good is a community if everyone knows where something is and can just go get it? There are several things out there that can help you, I posted a old javascript map that is handy in finding what ya need or want, True its outdated but most things in it are accurate or can point you in the right direction. [/quote] As I have said earlier, no one is forcing those who don't want the information to use it. And what about the more independant of us who enjoy doing things for ourselves? You're going to force us to socialize more than we desire and make us dependant on the whims of others? Don't get me wrong. I have a tight circle of friends both in game and out, who have been and are a great help at times. Still, I for one could be completely happy to never buy or ask another player for anything. It would give me great pleasure to say, [i]I[/i] have done this. In any event, I have made a very good case and offered ways of expanding use of your content. If you choose to ignore it, so be it. BTW, on eve, you can, thru the API, access item info and build info and ship info from the live database as well as non personal and non security related information about players too..

Kyp, I do hope you don't think I'm asking for unrestricted access to the live db, or that I would even suggest a static dump should include player information. Still, I don't think mob locations with drops is too much to ask for. Let me try to explain. We all know that player made items are far superior to vendored and that all the good stuff is drop only. It is simply a very daunting task for most players to search thru the entire galaxy for that gun/shield/reactor/device and/or the component to build it. In fact, given the number of possibilities, by the time one locates the appropriate mob and actually gets it to drop the wanted item, one is well beyond the point of needing it, probably by several levels. So, by your action of making the item unattainable, you have rendered it useless and are making less use of your limited content. Now, if one knows at least generally, perhaps which system to search, and the possibility of getting it in time to actually use it, one has a self assigned quest to attain said item, in effect expanding the use of your limited content. Of course, the lower level items would be easier to find and acquire than the higher levels. I hope this explains my request.

[quote name='Maniac' timestamp='1301181752' post='37247'] Your not getting the whole point that he was saying. Lets view it this way, only the [b]minority[/b] wants the database open. [/quote] You're making an unfounded assumption there. I see both support and dissent here. Furthermore, no one is forcing those who don't want the information to use it. Whereas, if it is unavailable, you are forcing us to contend without it. in answer to you questions; 1) to help me locate needed items and components for building 2) as long as I choose to or until it is no longer available, which ever comes 1st 3) no Yes, I still want the information available. I'm not asking the devs to provide it, just not to hide it.

[quote name='Kyp' timestamp='1301176088' post='37229'] We're going to run it this way regardless unless the community decides we're not doing it right and leaves...[/quote] So, in effect, you're saying, I'm the boss, I'm gonna do it my way and if you don't like it, there's the door. Kind of reminds me of someone... initials EA

Ok, for eve here are 2 player developed apps that do access the live database. http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/EFT http://evemon.battleclinic.com/ You should all remember, this is a suggestion with an endless number of permutations. So you don't want ALL drop locations known. Do you want ALL drop locations hidden? Also, y'all are ignoring the rest of the post. I also suggested there should be more drops of many items and better quality to some.

[quote name='Kyp' timestamp='1301172904' post='37220'] You were talking about always taking the easy path and not knowing the solution. Make both paths look hard, and the player will choose one and try and even though its harder they will probably succeed anyway resulting in a more rewarding play experience. Really? Name 3 examples, with links to data offered by the creator, this is certainly a very new behavior of any mass market mmo I know. Wow doesn't do it, and they all copy wow nowadays just about, so let's see it. To answer the latter question, sure but it'll be blank structure only with enough data needed to make the server boot when we do. I assume that's ok with everyone since it's all that would be provided in any other project. [/quote] I'm loathe to mention this one, but, Eve has live access to their database. It takes a bit of digging here, but with a little poking around, you'll see the references and tools for accessing the live db. As a matter of fact, there are many player developed apps that do so. http://code.google.com/p/eveonline-db/ Vendetta Online has access to their db and tools for doing so. http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/16/17224 Star Trek Online is actively developing their database access. http://www.startrekonline-credits.com/startrekonlineitemsdb/ http://n4g.com/news/504389/mmorpg-star-trek-online-captains-database-launched Neverwinter Nights may not qualify as a true mmorpg since all servers are player hosted, but the entire db is installed with the game and modifiable by anyone wishing to. There is a very large community dedicated to doing so. Is this really a mass market mmo, or a fan based effort to revive an old favorite? As to the skeletal db, I think you misunderstood the request. You could do a database dump and make that available with none of the server software included.

[quote name='Kyp' timestamp='1301160571' post='37211'] 1) I do, make both courses rocky and appear to be difficult to tread, then they will choose one and try it. [/quote] huh? what "both" courses are you refering to? [quote name='Kyp' timestamp='1301160571' post='37211'] 3) We're not making loot locations known from a live database connection, as previously stated you're more than welcome to develop your own resources but no live and professional game does this, neither shall we. It is an unrealistic expectation for anyone to think otherwise. Knowing where and how to get everything is boring to most people. [/quote] not true, there are several games with live access to their db but... ok, how about making the db available for download and outside developement?

duh-me

Has anyone else noticed that there is not a single shield builder in the Jenquai race? Remove either the build devices or the build weapons skill from the seeker skills and replace it with build shields.

I have noticed recently the number of players looking for a quick, easy way to level up has increased exponentially. I can offer 3 reason for this. 1st, like water, most people will seek the easiest course. I have no solution for this. 2nd, the loot tables are nerfed.... The frequency and quality of dropped items is way below par. There is little or no incentive to spend the time leveling the hard way, when there is no reward other than the xp and there are faster, easier ways to get that xp. The drop frequency of most items should be increased. Perhaps divided into 4 tiers of availability. 1. Readily available if one is willing to invest a little time in hunting and waiting for the drop. 2. Moderately available with plenty of drop locations across the galaxy but with a significantly lower drop rate. 3. Rare items with a few drop locations across the galaxy and a drop rate only slightly less than the moderate. 4. Very rare items with perhaps a unique drop location and a moderate to low drop rate. 3rd, with all of the drop locations hidden in the database, even if you know what you're looking for, you have no way of locating it. The solution is obvious here, unhide the drop locations of all but the most rare items.